Is Elite College Worth It? Maybe Not

[cawacko]

Well actually I've been in the corporate world from quite some time and I've seen a lot of psychology grads succeed in sales. In fact if I know I'm dealing with one of them I'm like double/triple guard up cause some of those fuckers are masters at manipulation. I wouldn't underestimate them. They have a way of getting you to eat a shit sandwhich with a smile.

Contrary to LV's dozens of posts claiming otherwise my intent was not to knock a psychology degree. I could have selected history, English, medicine etc. I simply picked a non-business major and asked the question you responded to, would you rather study business at State U or a non business major at an Ivy if your goal was to go into the business world. (And yes, "the business world" is very large and there are people with a variety of degrees in "business". But from what I'm seen those who are higher up in companies tend to have more business backgrounds education wise, which makes sense).

[Cypress]

I have met some top tier scientist that did not go to Ivy league schools. Arune Varshnaya I had the pleasure to meet and he was considered the top glass/ceramic scientist in the nation. He wasn't an Ivy league grad. In fact what you're saying is probably true about scientist who pursue research in basic sciences. It's absolutely not true in the applied sciences. In fact in applied science private sector scientist outpace public sector scientist by a wide margin, IMHO. You don't find to many Jack Kilby's in academia.

Hi Mott.
I have too.

That is why I said this: "You almost cannot be a top tier scientific researcher without Ivy League, MIT, Cal Tech, or at least an elite, top tier public university under your belt (UC Berkley, Michigan etc.)."

There are some elite earth scientists who went to top tier public universities like University Texas-Austin, University of Washington, University of Michigan, et al. Penn State is top rate in the geosciences.

I will say that the truly elite genius-level students I met as undergraduates all applied to, and were trying to get into MIT, Scripps, Woods Hole, Cal Tech, Stanford, etc. None of them were applying to Utah State or Akron State - not that those aren't fine schools for the students they serve.

Yes, I agree there is probably a distinction between elite research scientists, and scientists in applied field.

[Controlled Opposition]

Hello CO,



Get that from Fox News?

I never watch Fox News and you just indulged in a cheap and stupid tactic. A method of avoidance.

[Mott the Hoople]

The last line, "network opportunities" is a biggie

I live in the NE where private schools are dominate, and in this area it does mean something to graduate from one of those smaller private schools. Having also lived in Florida for awhile, I know it means more to graduate from UF than any other institution down there, and in both cases it is because of networking. Suppose geographical location also has something to do with it, it would be more difficult to expect success getting an enviable position in NYC graduating from UF than say a Colgate or Bucknell

Personally, I do know based upon myself and my children, the small private college offers a better education than the large State institutions

I couldn't agree with you more. You can't swing a dead cat by the tail in Ohio without hitting a small liberal arts teaching college like Dennison, Antioch, Oberlin, Kenyon, Wooster, Baldwin-Wallace, Heidelberg, etc., and if I had the money I'd rather send my kid to one of them than State U or any of the Prestigious Research Universities. I would do so as I know they will receive superior class room instruction.

Having said that one of the hard truths that no one wants to seem to admit to during this scandal is that not all kids are college material. Some of the more prestigious State Universities have surprisingly high drop out rates as they often have to accept qualified in State students who get there and being immature party their way out of school.

[Mott the Hoople]

That's what the argument essentially boils down to. When I was choosing a college I was sitting with my father and we were going over my options and he asked "where do you want to live when you're older?" I said California. He said of the schools I got into to USC had the best network in California and that's why I choose it. To your point ask anyone who has lived in Southern California the power of the USC network. It's very real. Just like the schools and areas you listed.

You want to work on Wall St? No better place to go than the Ivy's.

Same here in Ohio and well beyond if you're an OSU grad. Their Alumni Association is freaken everywhere.

[Mott the Hoople]

I graduated from LSU dental school and I can tell you for a fact where someone went for undergrad was meaningless .
I also worked with a Harvard dental school grad and he was pretty worthless. Lazy. But he sure let everybody know where he went to dental school.
But maybe I'm being too harsh.
LSU is the top ranked dental school in the country.
https://schools.studentdoctor.net/sc...ool-rankings/0

That's very true in graduate studies. Practically no one ask their Doctor, Lawyer, PE, where they went to school. Not if they have State Licensing. In fact in a lot of professional schools the student body kind of rolls their eyes at the straight A students as earning straight A's isn't often worth missing out on other areas of personal development. Like how to communicate with people and how to earn a living and how to manage a practice/business, etc,.

I did my graduate studies at a small liberal arts school no one here, I'm pretty sure of, has ever heard of but I attended as their program in EH&S Management is one of the tops in the nation.

[Controlled Opposition]

Hello CO,



Riiiight. Yes. A complete investigation of the allegations against Kav was conducted. And Republicans were fine with the results of one short Benghazi investigation, too.

Your biases are showing. I didn't want Kavanaugh, but I believe that Ford was a total failure as a witness and probably a victim of her own false memory syndrome. Then too, the FBI was conducting a background investigation, not a criminal investigation.

And FINALLY, the Kavanaugh confirmation was an entirely unrelated matter than Benghazi. Another false, irrelevant, failed attempt at equivalency.

[LV426]

Did you have OCD? Or is there another clinical name for what you suffer from? Look how worked up and angry you are over my comment. You honestly need help.

You have an entitlement complex. One that is completely unearned. Your perspective is not one that is informed by anything other than your inherent bias. When presented with information and evidence that runs counter to your thinking, rather than accept that new information and change your thinking, you whine, cry, and double down on the same stupid position that was just disproved.

The best example of that is you willfully ignoring evidence that runs counter to the preconceived and prejudicial notion you have about the value or worth of certain degrees.

You stupidly said that someone with a Psych degree from Harvard isn't in a better position to work "in business" than someone with a business degree from a State University. So, I did research and looked online and found through Payscale that Psych degree holders' average wages track with the national average, but more importantly one of the top 4 employers of people with Psych degrees was Bank of America, the very "business" you were talking about before. And since your judgment isn't sound, this air of superiority you think you have isn't earned, and the reality is that you're just a fucking poseur too afraid to admit when you're wrong about something.

Now, you've completely ignored that because it ruins the narrative in your head that says degrees like Psych degrees are of little worth and don't advantage you in the workplace, when the evidence shows it does.

So you refuse to square your bias with the evidence presented to you, and the reason you do that is because you know admitting that your preconceived notions are wrong would be a tacit admission that the judgment that led you to those notions isn't sound in the first place.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

You have an entitlement complex. One that is completely unearned. Your perspective is not one that is informed by anything other than your inherent bias. When presented with information and evidence that runs counter to your thinking, rather than accept that new information and change your thinking, you whine, cry, and double down on the same stupid position that was just disproved.

The best example of that is you willfully ignoring evidence that runs counter to the preconceived and prejudicial notion you have about the value or worth of certain degrees.

You stupidly said that someone with a Psych degree from Harvard isn't in a better position to work "in business" than someone with a business degree from a State University. So, I did research and looked online and found through Payscale that Psych degree holders' average wages track with the national average, but more importantly one of the top 4 employers of people with Psych degrees was Bank of America, the very "business" you were talking about before.

Now, you've completely ignored that because it ruins the narrative in your head that says degrees like Psych degrees are of little worth and don't advantage you in the workplace, when the evidence shows it does.

So you refuse to square your bias with the evidence presented to you, and the reason you do that is because you know admitting that your preconceived notions are wrong would be a tacit admission that the judgment that led you to those notions isn't sound in the first place.

fucktard. you focused on one degree and one company. and you're mostly projecting on who's doubling down on what. and, im a psych major from emory.

[LV426]

You used a lot of words and took a long time to say that your political biases formed your decision. Try looking at an issue from both sides sometime. What could it hurt?

Bad faith is not a "side".

It's bad faith.

[reagansghost]

You have an entitlement complex. One that is completely unearned. Your perspective is not one that is informed by anything other than your inherent bias. When presented with information and evidence that runs counter to your thinking, rather than accept that new information and change your thinking, you whine, cry, and double down on the same stupid position that was just disproved.

The best example of that is you willfully ignoring evidence that runs counter to the preconceived and prejudicial notion you have about the value or worth of certain degrees.

You stupidly said that someone with a Psych degree from Harvard isn't in a better position to work "in business" than someone with a business degree from a State University. So, I did research and looked online and found through Payscale that Psych degree holders' average wages track with the national average, but more importantly one of the top 4 employers of people with Psych degrees was Bank of America, the very "business" you were talking about before. And since your judgment isn't sound, this air of superiority you think you have isn't earned, and the reality is that you're just a fucking poseur too afraid to admit when you're wrong about something.

Now, you've completely ignored that because it ruins the narrative in your head that says degrees like Psych degrees are of little worth and don't advantage you in the workplace, when the evidence shows it does.

So you refuse to square your bias with the evidence presented to you, and the reason you do that is because you know admitting that your preconceived notions are wrong would be a tacit admission that the judgment that led you to those notions isn't sound in the first place.

wacko is a complete and utter asshole

if the fuck does actually live in CA he needs to get the fuck out

[LV426]

It's been my experience that folks with degrees in psychology do quite well in corporate sales.

Yeah, exactly.

Corporate businesses hire people with degrees in anthropology, sociology, history, women's studies, and psychology because they want to increase their sales, revenue, and customer base.

Anyone who thinks those degrees don't have value is a fucking moron.

[anonymoose]

That's very true in graduate studies. Practically no one ask their Doctor, Lawyer, PE, where they went to school. Not if they have State Licensing. In fact in a lot of professional schools the student body kind of rolls their eyes at the straight A students as earning straight A's isn't often worth missing out on other areas of personal development. Like how to communicate with people and how to earn a living and how to manage a practice/business, etc,.

I did my graduate studies at a small liberal arts school no one here, I'm pretty sure of, has ever heard of but I attended as their program in EH&S Management is one of the tops in the nation.

To each their own I guess. Some professionals' overriding decision on where to go to school or work is what it can do for their professional development.
For me it's where can I go for the best quality of life.

[Mott the Hoople]

The problem with you, Cawacko, is that you use too much common sense and not enough emotion in your posts. If you would just squawk your thoughts exhibiting less self control you would be more appealling to some of these folks.

As to the OP...my son is a sophomore in high school and is in the process of choosing colleges right now. I am trying to let him make his own choices but also am trying to provide some practical advice to him. Part of that advice is the thrust of this article. He doesn’t nexessarily have to go to Harvard, Yale or MIT to come out and make a good living. He is very interested in those schools but he needs to know the truth. Most of the time it is the [perceived] prestige in the degree from these “elite” schools that gets in the heads of these young folks (and their parents as we’ve seen lately) but other schools can be and are more than adequate.

Congratulations LR....you're the first person on JPP to ever use Cawacko and Common Sense in the same sentence.

[Mott the Hoople]

I appreciate you LR and miss you posting here.

Best of luck to your son in whatever he chooses. Always an exciting and scary time when applying to schools. I'm sure you two will be having some very interesting discussions as you (he) make(s) that ultimate decision.

LOL I was just happy to get into any accredited university for undergraduate school...and get a College education at all...but that's a long story....and the way it is, for the most part, when you're parents are poor.