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Thread: The Garden of Eden as recast Mesopotamian Myth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    . River Gihon could not possibly flow from Mesopotamia and encompass Ethiopia (Gen 2:13)
    B. The name Babel does not come from the Hebrew word 'balbal' or 'confuse' but from the babylonian 'babili' or 'gate of God' which is a translation of the original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra. (Gen 11:9)
    C. Ur was not a Chaldean city until 1000 years after Abraham (Gen 11:28, 15:7)
    D. Abraham pursued enemies to 'Dan' (Gen 14:14). That name was not used geographically until after the conquest (Judge 18:29)
    E. Gen 36:31, telling of Jacob and Esau, lists kings of Edom "before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." This must have been written hundreds of years later, after Israel had kings.
    F. Joseph tells Pharaoh he comes from the "land of the Hebrews" (Gen 40:15). There was no such land until after the conquest under Joshua.
    G. The Egyptian princess names the baby she finds "Moses" because she "drew him out" of the water (Heb meshethi). Why would she make a pun in Hebrew (Ex 2:10)?
    H. No Egyptian record exists mentioning Moses or his devastation of Egypt.
    I. Moses refers to "Palestine" (Ex 15:14). No such name was in use then.
    J. Law of Moses is the "statutes of God and his laws" (Ex 18:26), but it closely mirrors the Code of Hammurabi, which was penned 1800 BC, hundreds of years before Moses.
    K. Priests are mentioned at Ex 19:22-24, but they are not provided for until Ex 28:1.
    L. Moses mentions Rabbath, where Og's bedstead is located (Deut3:11). Moses could not have any knowledge of Rabbath,which was not captured by the Hebrews until David's time,500 years later (2 Sam 12:26).
    M. Jericho and Ai (Josh 8) were both ancient ruins at the time of the conquest of Canaan, according to archaeologists. Jericho's walls were destroyed centuries before Joshua.
    N. Kings are referred to at Deut 17:17-19, before Israel had kings.
    O. The Wilderness is viewed as history at Num 15:32, showing that Numbers was written later.
    P. The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num 15:32-34.
    Q. Book of Joshua refers to Book of Jasher in the past, mentioned at 2 Sam 1:18, therefore Joshua must be post-David.
    R. Captivity is mentioned at Judg 18:30, making it post-Exile.
    S. David took Goliath's head to Jerusalem (1 Sam 17:54). But Jerusalem was not captured until 7 years after David became king (2 Sam 5).
    T. David paid 600 shekels of gold for the threshing floor (1 Chron21:22-25). But shekels of gold were not yet used in business transactions (this is the only use of the term in the OT).
    U. Psalm 18:6 mentions the temple, thus cannot be by David.
    V. Defeat of Sennacherib did not happen at Jerusalem, but at Pelusium, near Egypt, and Jews were not involved, contrary to 2 Kings 19.
    W. Ninevah was so large it took three days to cross, i.e. about 60 miles (Jonah 3:3-4). Yet it had only 120,000 inhabitants, making a population density of of about 42 people per square
    mile for a city.
    X. Daniel's account of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar is historically inaccurate; Nebuchadnezzar was never mad. Belshazzar, whom he says was king, was never king, but only regent. Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar, but of Nabo-nidus. Babylon was not conquered by Darius the Mede, but by Cyrus the Great, in 539 BC (Dan 5:31). Darius the Mede is unknown to history.
    Y. Chronology of the empires of the Medes and Persians is historically incorrect in Isa 13:17, 21:2, Jer 51:11, 28
    Z. Esther (and all the characters in the Book of Esther except Ahasuerus [= Xerxes]) is unknown to history, even though itclaims that its events are "written in the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia" (Est 10:2). The Book of Esther is not quoted by any pre-Christian writer, nor mentioned in
    NT, nor quoted by early Christian fathers.

    https://m.news24.com/MyNews24/The-Pr...-more-20120517

    These are just a few historical errors in the Bible.
    Its crazy for people to kill each other when their sacred texts contain so many errors and contradictions.
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Phantasmal (03-18-2019)

  3. #32 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    link the text copied by Genesis or simply shut the fuck up......its that simple.....every time you've pulled this shit I have proven you a liar.....
    Already been posted..
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Already been posted..
    no......you have posted no texts.....you never do......do you know why?.......its because you make them all up........and you're stupid enough to keep doing it.....I would think you would be embarrassed by now........

  5. #34 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    . River Gihon could not possibly flow from Mesopotamia and encompass Ethiopia (Gen 2:13)
    B. The name Babel does not come from the Hebrew word 'balbal' or 'confuse' but from the babylonian 'babili' or 'gate of God' which is a translation of the original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra. (Gen 11:9)
    C. Ur was not a Chaldean city until 1000 years after Abraham (Gen 11:28, 15:7)
    D. Abraham pursued enemies to 'Dan' (Gen 14:14). That name was not used geographically until after the conquest (Judge 18:29)
    E. Gen 36:31, telling of Jacob and Esau, lists kings of Edom "before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." This must have been written hundreds of years later, after Israel had kings.
    F. Joseph tells Pharaoh he comes from the "land of the Hebrews" (Gen 40:15). There was no such land until after the conquest under Joshua.
    G. The Egyptian princess names the baby she finds "Moses" because she "drew him out" of the water (Heb meshethi). Why would she make a pun in Hebrew (Ex 2:10)?
    H. No Egyptian record exists mentioning Moses or his devastation of Egypt.
    I. Moses refers to "Palestine" (Ex 15:14). No such name was in use then.
    J. Law of Moses is the "statutes of God and his laws" (Ex 18:26), but it closely mirrors the Code of Hammurabi, which was penned 1800 BC, hundreds of years before Moses.
    K. Priests are mentioned at Ex 19:22-24, but they are not provided for until Ex 28:1.
    L. Moses mentions Rabbath, where Og's bedstead is located (Deut3:11). Moses could not have any knowledge of Rabbath,which was not captured by the Hebrews until David's time,500 years later (2 Sam 12:26).
    M. Jericho and Ai (Josh 8) were both ancient ruins at the time of the conquest of Canaan, according to archaeologists. Jericho's walls were destroyed centuries before Joshua.
    N. Kings are referred to at Deut 17:17-19, before Israel had kings.
    O. The Wilderness is viewed as history at Num 15:32, showing that Numbers was written later.
    P. The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num 15:32-34.
    Q. Book of Joshua refers to Book of Jasher in the past, mentioned at 2 Sam 1:18, therefore Joshua must be post-David.
    R. Captivity is mentioned at Judg 18:30, making it post-Exile.
    S. David took Goliath's head to Jerusalem (1 Sam 17:54). But Jerusalem was not captured until 7 years after David became king (2 Sam 5).
    T. David paid 600 shekels of gold for the threshing floor (1 Chron21:22-25). But shekels of gold were not yet used in business transactions (this is the only use of the term in the OT).
    U. Psalm 18:6 mentions the temple, thus cannot be by David.
    V. Defeat of Sennacherib did not happen at Jerusalem, but at Pelusium, near Egypt, and Jews were not involved, contrary to 2 Kings 19.
    W. Ninevah was so large it took three days to cross, i.e. about 60 miles (Jonah 3:3-4). Yet it had only 120,000 inhabitants, making a population density of of about 42 people per square
    mile for a city.
    X. Daniel's account of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar is historically inaccurate; Nebuchadnezzar was never mad. Belshazzar, whom he says was king, was never king, but only regent. Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar, but of Nabo-nidus. Babylon was not conquered by Darius the Mede, but by Cyrus the Great, in 539 BC (Dan 5:31). Darius the Mede is unknown to history.
    Y. Chronology of the empires of the Medes and Persians is historically incorrect in Isa 13:17, 21:2, Jer 51:11, 28
    Z. Esther (and all the characters in the Book of Esther except Ahasuerus [= Xerxes]) is unknown to history, even though itclaims that its events are "written in the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia" (Est 10:2). The Book of Esther is not quoted by any pre-Christian writer, nor mentioned in
    NT, nor quoted by early Christian fathers.

    https://m.news24.com/MyNews24/The-Pr...-more-20120517

    These are just a few historical errors in the Bible.
    can you document that any one of them is an historical error or are you just taking this guy's word for it....(I'm sure you noticed he provided no authority for any of his claims).......do you even know who Daniel Henson is?.......

  6. #35 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    no......you have posted no texts.....you never do......do you know why?.......its because you make them all up........and you're stupid enough to keep doing it.....I would think you would be embarrassed by now........
    Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text ...
    https://www.ancient.eu/article/225

    1 When the heavens above did not exist, 2 And earth beneath had not come into being — 3 There …
    1 Tia-mat gathered together her creation. 2 And organised battle against the gods, her offspring. 3 …
    1 Anšar opened his mouth. 2 And addressed Kaka, his vizier, 3 "Vizier Kaka, who gratifies my …
    1 They set a lordly dais for him. 2 And he took his seat before his fathers to receive kingship. 3 …
    See all full list on ancient.eu
    The Enuma Elish: The Babylonian Creation Myth - CRI/Voice
    www.crivoice.org › Bible Topics › History and Culture

    The Enuma Elish is a Babylonian or Mesopotamian myth of creation recounting the struggle between cosmic order and chaos. It is basically a myth of the cycle of seasons. It is named after its opening words and was recited on the fourth day of the ancient Babylonian New Year's festival. The basic story exists in various forms in the area.
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to kudzu For This Post:

    Phantasmal (03-18-2019)

  8. #36 | Top
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    Genesis 1 and a Babylonian Creation Story

    In the middle of the nineteenth century, archaeologists were digging in the library of King Ashurbanipal (668-627 B.C.) in the ancient city of Nineveh. They discovered thousands of clay tablets written in a language that came to be known as Akkadian (a distant and much older cousin to Hebrew).

    These tablets contained things like laws, administrative matters, and literature. It was like unearthing a time capsule to see what life was like in the ancient Near East 3,000 to 4,000 years ago.

    But it was the religious texts found there that got the most attention. One of those texts bore striking similarities to Genesis 1.

    How people viewed Genesis would never be the same again.

    Found among the ruins was a Babylonian creation story referred to today as Enuma Elish. It is a story about a highly dysfunctional divine family engaged in a major power struggle at the dawn of time. The heart of the story is where the god Marduk kills his nemesis Tiamat and then fillets her body in two, making the sky out of one half and the earth out of the other. Thus, Marduk claims the throne as the high god in the pantheon.

    Scholars have termed Enuma Elish the “Babylonian Genesis.” The reason is that both stories share some concepts that were immediately apparent.

    In both stories, matter exists when creation begins. Similar to Enuma Elish, Genesis 1 describes God ordering chaos, not creating something out of nothing.
    Darkness precedes the creative acts.

    continued

    https://biologos.org/articles/genesi...creation-story
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text ...
    https://www.ancient.eu/article/225

    1 When the heavens above did not exist, 2 And earth beneath had not come into being — 3 There …
    1 Tia-mat gathered together her creation. 2 And organised battle against the gods, her offspring. 3 …
    1 Anšar opened his mouth. 2 And addressed Kaka, his vizier, 3 "Vizier Kaka, who gratifies my …
    1 They set a lordly dais for him. 2 And he took his seat before his fathers to receive kingship. 3 …
    See all full list on ancient.eu
    The Enuma Elish: The Babylonian Creation Myth - CRI/Voice
    www.crivoice.org › Bible Topics › History and Culture

    The Enuma Elish is a Babylonian or Mesopotamian myth of creation recounting the struggle between cosmic order and chaos. It is basically a myth of the cycle of seasons. It is named after its opening words and was recited on the fourth day of the ancient Babylonian New Year's festival. The basic story exists in various forms in the area.
    and this is the creation story you say the Jews copied in Genesis?..........just out of curiosity, have you ever read Genesis......

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    But it was the religious texts found there that got the most attention. One of those texts bore striking similarities to Genesis 1.

    How people viewed Genesis would never be the same again.

    Found among the ruins was a Babylonian creation story referred to today as Enuma Elish. It is a story about a highly dysfunctional divine family engaged in a major power struggle at the dawn of time. The heart of the story is where the god Marduk kills his nemesis Tiamat and then fillets her body in two, making the sky out of one half and the earth out of the other. Thus, Marduk claims the throne as the high god in the pantheon.

    Scholars have termed Enuma Elish the “Babylonian Genesis.” The reason is that both stories share some concepts that were immediately apparent.
    can you identify one of these similarities?......

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    and this is the creation story you say the Jews copied in Genesis?..........just out of curiosity, have you ever read Genesis......
    Many times..

    There are several versions of the Babylonian creation story.. The Hebrews learned it when they were in exile in Babylon for 70 years.. They used it to write their own creation myth.

    Prior to that and the writing of Leviticus and Deuteronomy they had no identity, origin myths or national narrative.
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    There are several versions of the Babylonian creation story.. .
    why can't you find one that has some similarity with the Genesis story......after all, its your claim that the Jews copied the Babylonian story.....I put it to you that it is obvious you are lying since you cannot find a single Babylonian story that sounds ever remotely like anything that is written in Genesis.......doesn't that embarrass you?.......

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