Socialized medicine a global failure

[zymurgy]

people risk time and treasure for new medicine because they want to profit greatly from risking their time and treasure

single payer creates a monopoly which allows price control. Risk takers simply will take less risks in a price control environment

It isn't a secret why socialism fails compared to capitalism. any system that tried to ignore the human equation is simply not going to perform well

removing American's role in the profit angle of new medicine is not going to end well.

[Nordberg]

Why Canada's 'best' health-care system just got ranked last — again ...

https://business.financialpost.com/o...ked-last-again
Oct 11, 2017 ... William Watson: In a New York Times contest of the world's top health-care systems, Canada didn't win. In fact, we were eliminated in the first ...

yeah waiting times. our waiting times are worse. What else does universal care provide? You do not go bankrupt if you are sick. You can change jobs without that terrifying qualification time without coverage. You can start a new busioness without worring about losing health care coverage. You are not spending thousands of dollars a month on coverage you hope you will not need. Ypur companies do not have to fold the cost of health insurance into their products cost,thereby making them more competitive.

[Taichiliberal]

I guess you were not around when Obama became president. Do you know he was facing a potential second great depression. It kept him kind of busy'
Of course you are also unaware that Obama was forced to not push single payer by the incredible lobbying power of doctors, hospitals, PHARM and health insurance companies. He was able to count. He knew if he went that way, he would lose some Dems and Repubs who were financed by health companies. Some states are heaviy controlled by Medoical powers. So his ability to count showed him that he had to modify his goals to just getting his foot in the door. The plan was to improve healthcare when Hillary won.
The Dems actually do vote outside the party . Of course Kennedy was dying. Btrd was dying. Franken was not in office for months. Lieberman was Repub more than a Dem. So no, he did not have that power. Do some homewrork before you nake your noise posts.

Ya got stamina, kid. I've been there, done that with this joker on other subjects.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

So says the person that can’t account for how many of the countries he posted for evidence that people leave home to get healthcare in other nations, are Single Payer socialized medicine nations receiving the foreigners for care. He doesn’t even mention how many of those travelers who seek healthcare in other countries are actually Americans. And it’s logical to believe he (Nordi), didn’t even bother to check how many of those traveling healthcare seekers are actually folks from Single Payer socialized medicine nations actually seeking healthcare abroad because they didn’t want to die on SINGLE PAYER WAITING LIST in their home country. Go figure!!!!!

Guess what. There are people on transplant waiting lists in the USA who die because they can't find a donor.

Capitalism let them down.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

I knew you could not be honest. The reason the medical tourists do not go to universal care countries, is because they do not have for profit medical care. Is that hard for you to understand. They don't even have a pay window. They are not asked for money. Healthcare is covered for all citizens. They are not in the business of making money off sick people. Yes kiddo, there are always over a million Americans a year going abroad for care. They do not go to get worse.
Americans go abroad to get equal or better care at a fraction of the price.

Robo doesn't understand what he is up against. We have learned how it can be in other nations. People are getting pretty tired of corporate rip-off health care in the US.

Everyone should watch Sicko, the Michael Moore movie about health care systems in different countries. Moore is astounded that in a hospital in Britain he can't find the payment window. Finally, after an exhaustive search he finds a payment window. But he is perplexed to learn the money is being paid out, not in. It is the window where patients can go to get transportation money to get home. It seems if you don't have the money to get home, the NHS will provide cab or train fare so you can make it home safely after being a patient.

[Nordberg]

Hello Nordberg,



Robo doesn't understand what he is up against. We have learned how it can be in other nations. People are getting pretty tired of corporate rip-off health care in the US.

Everyone should watch Sicko, the Michael Moore movie about health care systems in different countries. Moore is astounded that in a hospital in Britain he can't find the payment window. Finally, after an exhaustive search he finds a payment window. But he is perplexed to learn the money is being paid out, not in. It is the window where patients can go to get transportation money to get home. It seems if you don't have the money to get home, the NHS will provide cab or train fare so you can make it home safely after being a patient.

What is terifying is an interview I saw with one of the Kochs a few years ago. He was asked how the Americans would keep their healthcare system when they see how much better and less pressured so many other countriies have it for health care. He said "Don't worry about that. We will take care of that". I thought it was just crazy bragging, but then thought, what if he can actually do it? Reading Robo and some others, you can see they are getting it done. I thought no way the Brits and Canadians would fall for that. They are.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

What is terifying is an interview I saw with one of the Kochs a few years ago. He was asked how the Americans would keep their healthcare system when they see how much better and less pressured so many other countriies have it for health care. He said "Don't worry about that. We will take care of that". I thought it was just crazy bragging, but then thought, what if he can actually do it? Reading Robo and some others, you can see they are getting it done. I thought no way the Brits and Canadians would fall for that. They are.

I don't understand why people are so willing to trust the same large corporations that are extracting their wealth and obviously making the super-rich vastly richer while leaving the rest behind. I can almost see it for those who are well off enough to have investments in these corporations so they get some return of their own, but the really baffling thing is the people who can't rub two dimes together and they still support the wealth extraction which keeps them poor, hoping one day they will 'get their chance.'

[Nordberg]

people risk time and treasure for new medicine because they want to profit greatly from risking their time and treasure

single payer creates a monopoly which allows price control. Risk takers simply will take less risks in a price control environment

It isn't a secret why socialism fails compared to capitalism. any system that tried to ignore the human equation is simply not going to perform well

removing American's role in the profit angle of new medicine is not going to end well.

New medicines are developed by colleges on our dime. They are also developed by some entrepreneurs. But it isn't the big drug companies. They take over once a drug is developed or clearly on the horizon.

[zymurgy]

New medicines are developed by colleges on our dime.

wrong.

every dime we provide is used to pay interest on the debt. claiming we are fiscally solvent is horseshit.

[Nordberg]

wrong.

every dime we provide is used to pay interest on the debt. claiming we are fiscally solvent is horseshit.

I made that claim?

[Nordberg]

The fact is there is a nation that has a bad healthcare system. Millions of people get no care at all. Those that get emergency care cost the system a ton of money. The country spends an enormous amount of money on this system, more than double most other countries. Its medical system is among the lowest rated. That country has had healthcare change as part of many political debates for nearly a century with all politicians admitting their system was bankrupting the country and needed to be fixed.

[Frank Apisa]

The fact is there is a nation that has a bad healthcare system. Millions of people get no care at all. Those that get emergency care cost the system a ton of money. The country spends an enormous amount of money on this system, more than double most other countries. Its medical system is among the lowest rated. That country has had healthcare change as part of many political debates for nearly a century with all politicians admitting their system was bankrupting the country and needed to be fixed.

And the country's name is....?

[PoliTalker]

And the country's name is....?

No wait.

Lemme guess.

Russia?

[Frank Apisa]

No wait.

Lemme guess.

Russia?

I don't think that is what Nordberg had in mind!

(I know we are kidding about it, but how sad it is that because of the American right...we continue to spend FAR MORE for healthcare than any nation...we still are in last place in results among the Industrialized nations...and even have some third world countries besting us.)

[Taichiliberal]

What cracks me up is that the main complaint by right wing wonks and toadies for big pharma & insurance is that Canadians have to wait sometimes for some procedures.

As opposed to not getting any healthcare at all? Remember folks, hospital emergency rooms are used instead of check-ups and such by a whole lot of folk of various generations born and raised here. Why? Because people can't afford $200 to just have ear wax cleaned out by a doctor! Nor can they afford the latest meds without insurance (ex:, $800 for 30 pills to control hype-calcium).

Canadians don't have that problem. There, it's a little pain when the tax man cometh once a year, as opposed to "your money or your life" here regarding healthcare.

Which is better?