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Thread: The Will of the People

  1. #31 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Who elects these legislators?
    If you dont approve then stop electing them.
    Repub gerrymandering makes most Repub seats safe. My district was a poster boy of a dead district for Dems.

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  3. #32 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Repub gerrymandering makes most Repub seats safe. My district was a poster boy of a dead district for Dems.
    Ditto for us in MO as well. We lived in a suburb of STL that used to be Congressional District #3, represented by Russ Carnahan. His father was a gov. of MO and his mother a Senator. Once we were assimilated by the (R) Borg though, the whole area was redrawn and we were blessed with Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin and more recently by Ann "Cannot Meet in Person With My Scary Constituents Unless They are Conservatives" Wagner. From the Wikipedia article on him:

    "Dramatic losses in population in St. Louis in the 2010 Census contributed to Missouri losing a Congressional seat effective 2013. In the remapping of the state's congressional districts, Carnahan's district was dismantled. The bulk of the district, including Carnahan's home, was drawn into Missouri's 1st congressional district."

    We really need to get rid of that gerrymandering crap.

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  5. #33 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Ditto for us in MO as well. We lived in a suburb of STL that used to be Congressional District #3, represented by Russ Carnahan. His father was a gov. of MO and his mother a Senator. Once we were assimilated by the (R) Borg though, the whole area was redrawn and we were blessed with Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin and more recently by Ann "Cannot Meet in Person With My Scary Constituents Unless They are Conservatives" Wagner. From the Wikipedia article on him:

    "Dramatic losses in population in St. Louis in the 2010 Census contributed to Missouri losing a Congressional seat effective 2013. In the remapping of the state's congressional districts, Carnahan's district was dismantled. The bulk of the district, including Carnahan's home, was drawn into Missouri's 1st congressional district."

    We really need to get rid of that gerrymandering crap.
    The Repubs will be on board if the election looks bad for them. The next census and the next gerrymandering happens after the 2020 election. The reds will suddenly want to reasonable.

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  7. #34 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Maybe I'm missing the point here but what were we doing fighting the Cold War if not to defend western liberal democracy? Were Republicans trying to turn the U.S. communist?
    I was responding to a poster who claimed Republicans did not support western democracy and alluded to the 2016 election in which the popular vote winner did not become president; thus, not really "democratic." I was just pointing out that most western democracies do not have a "democratically elected" (popular vote winner) chief executive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Repub gerrymandering makes most Repub seats safe. My district was a poster boy of a dead district for Dems.
    Gerrymandering by both parties makes most congressional districts safe (except for about forty). Today, gerrymandering has less to do with safe districts than the sorting process in which most people live around people like themselves. Central cities are made up largely of Democrats (creating "wasted" Democratic votes) and suburbs and smaller town Republicans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I was responding to a poster who claimed Republicans did not support western democracy and alluded to the 2016 election in which the popular vote winner did not become president; thus, not really "democratic." I was just pointing out that most western democracies do not have a "democratically elected" (popular vote winner) chief executive.
    Gotcha. I read Cypress’ post where he said we didn’t stand up for liberal democracy and I was thinking that’s what the Cold War was about

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    If that is true, then I agree.
    It's not true. Prop 8 was a ballot initiative aimed at getting the Right Wing loons to the polls. It passed, after the SC had ruled that same sex marriage was legal. The state legislature actually voted to change the language so that same sex couples couldn't refer to themselves as 'married', even though it remained legal in California
    Last edited by Althea; 02-22-2019 at 08:59 PM.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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  12. #38 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The Republican Party does not genuinely give a shit about the Electoral College on principal, unless it allows them to win. In 2000, when pre-election polling pointed to a possibility that Al Gore might win the EC, while losing the popular vote, the Bush campaign was preparing to challenge the legitimacy of the election.

    Combine that with the fact that Republicans have gerrymandered election results, commited widespread acts of electoral fraud, suppressed voting, and done everything in the power to just make voting a hassle.

    And that is exactly why Soviet leaders told Ronald Reagan to get fucked when he tried to lecture them about the superiority of western democracy. Even though the Soviets lied about a lot of things, there was more than a kernel of truth in their claim that American conservative leaders do not give a shit about democracy, and seek to game the system to thwart the will of the people.
    You are basically claiming the two parties will do anything to win-I agree. Democrats controlled Congress from 1932-1994 with a couple of exceptions. During that time they gerrymandered to maintain control. They even refused to redistrict for many years to prevent political power from shifting to the urban areas until the Supreme Court decisions of the 1960s.

    I grew up in a one-party Democratic state that used the worst kind of tactics to control the convention process until the reforms following the 1968 Democratic convention. Neither side has the moral high ground no matter how much liberals try to paint that picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    It's not true. Prop 8 was a ballot initiative aimed at getting the Right Wing loons to the polls. It passed, but was struck down by the SC for obvious reasons.

    State Legislature had nothing to do with it.

    Apples/VWs
    On a percent basis blacks and Hispanics voted the highest for Prop 8. Guess they fit into your “right wing loons” category

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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    It's not true. Prop 8 was a ballot initiative aimed at getting the Right Wing loons to the polls. It passed, after the SC had ruled that same sex marriage was legal. The state legislature actually voted to change the language so that same sex couples couldn't refer to themselves as 'married', even though it remained legal in California
    Edited to correct the chronology
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    You are basically claiming the two parties will do anything to win-I agree. Democrats controlled Congress from 1932-1994 with a couple of exceptions. During that time they gerrymandered to maintain control. They even refused to redistrict for many years to prevent political power from shifting to the urban areas until the Supreme Court decisions of the 1960s.

    I grew up in a one-party Democratic state that used the worst kind of tactics to control the convention process until the reforms following the 1968 Democratic convention. Neither side has the moral high ground no matter how much liberals try to paint that picture.
    Thank you. I’m not justifying Republican behavior but folks conveniently forget what Democrats did for decades like it never happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Thank you. I’m not justifying Republican behavior but folks conveniently forget what Democrats did for decades like it never happened.
    Some of us for sure. It's wrong and subverts the will of the people, no matter who does it. We could easily draw up fair and equitable districts based on the Census, using computer technology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Thank you. I’m not justifying Republican behavior but folks conveniently forget what Democrats did for decades like it never happened.
    That is how we practice politics today. It is not about what policies our party pushes but what negative things we can say about the other side. It gets especially bad when we pretend tactics used by both sides (filibuster, gerrymandering) are "worse" when the other side does it.

    Power is distasteful to Americans so we need to make it a moral issue rather than admitting we are using power to accomplish our goals. The same has been written about American going to war--it needs to be a moral crusade to support it.

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  20. #44 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    That is how we practice politics today. It is not about what policies our party pushes but what negative things we can say about the other side. It gets especially bad when we pretend tactics used by both sides (filibuster, gerrymandering) are "worse" when the other side does it.

    Power is distasteful to Americans so we need to make it a moral issue rather than admitting we are using power to accomplish our goals. The same has been written about American going to war--it needs to be a moral crusade to support it.
    To your second sentence this board is a perfect example with the way people spend far more time attacking each other than discussing ideas.

    Having followed politics through multiple Presidents I’ve seen fellow Republicans support something when a Republican does it and speak out against the exact same action when a Democrat does it. I know democrats have done the same in reverse. It’s not an easy mindset to get out of and away from. Maybe being hypocritical like that is what’s required in politics to “win”.

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  22. #45 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    To your second sentence this board is a perfect example with the way people spend far more time attacking each other than discussing ideas.

    Having followed politics through multiple Presidents I’ve seen fellow Republicans support something when a Republican does it and speak out against the exact same action when a Democrat does it. I know democrats have done the same in reverse. It’s not an easy mindset to get out of and away from. Maybe being hypocritical like that is what’s required in politics to “win”.
    I agree. We seem to be looking for things to dislike.

    "Did you watch the Academy Awards?" "No, and I'm not interested in seeing the Best Picture because the director's third cousin once attended a communist party meeting and everyone knows Hollywood is liberal."

    I mentioned to a relative that Nike stock lost 2% because of the shoe that came apart during that game. She said "good." I asked why and she said because Nike made a deal with Kaepernick. There are so many real problems to worry about and we are worried about Nike or Home Depot or Chick Filet.

    We seem to enjoy hating. I've heard people claiming the Berkeley student who assaulted the guy was "justified" because he was a Trump supporter.

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