Earl (02-20-2019)
Thanks, Wolverine. From your link:
'Debunking: "Do you like roads, public schools, police departments, fire departments and libraries? You already enjoy socialist institutions."
I saw Hasan Piker from TYT repeat this in his Politicon debate and it's one of those narratives that refuses to die. It's used by Leftists to warm up ignorant people to the idea of socialism through normalization. You see, you've already been living your life surrounded by socialist institutions and you didn't even realize it until now! Oh socialism isn't THAT bad!
It's a purposeful lie or a lie repeated by newbie Leftist that are just parroting what they've heard from other Leftists.
Socialism and capitalism are economic models that concern themselves primarily with what's done with the surplus product created by profitable industries. Capitalism says that the profits belong to the owner of the business and it is up to them to determine pretty much all aspects of running their business. Socialism, either through state-control/regulatory bodies/workers councils, carries out the will of the workers to equitably redistribute the wealth created by industries.
With that in mind, a road does not generate a profit, the police do not participate in the market, students do not receive wages for their "work" and libraries do not typically sell products in order to become wealthy. Collecting taxes to pay for public services and welfare programs is not socialist. Every modern country has roads, public schools and police officers, that doesn't make them inherently socialist. Ancient rome had highways, public bathhouses and aqueducts but this doesn't mean they invented socialism.
I've seen some attempt to say that universities are socialist institutions due to tuitions, enrollment and profits from sports events being central to their continued operation. The critical difference is that these profits are not passed on to "workers" (students) who make up the body of the school and the students do not have a prominent role in how the school's money is spent, that role belongs to the administration.
Not all government action is socialist just because you happen to enjoy or benefit from it. When someone repeats "Do you like roads, police, fire departments etc." Ask them "How much gross profit did your fire department make last year?"
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Earl (03-22-2019)
Hello and welcome climate+equality,
It wouldn't be such a bad thing if she said she was. The lines are blurred these days. Norway is socialist. But they also have lots of capitalism. I think a blend of the two is best. Bernie is on top of that.
I don't see how she could be, from her lowly position.
We, the People, looking out for We, the People. Government by the consent of the governed. Great concept.
That sure is spiraling downhill.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Earl (03-22-2019)
Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
He IS likeable. I voted for him last time, went to his rally in STL, donated to his campaign, etc. But he will be 80 in 2020. It's time for us old geezers to pass the torch to the younger generations.
ThatOwlWoman (03-22-2019)
Bernie, the poor, well not so poor, sap, is a stone socialist. The control of goods and services as we saw in the extraordinary success (sic) of socialism in Venezuela, is his plan for America. Perhaps those who espouse socialism should emigrate to Venezuela...bring food.
America has a Capitalistic economic unit...and always will.
iolo (03-22-2019)
Nordberg (04-01-2019)
The political party you vote for, support, and tenaciously defend literally calls western Europe, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, France, Netherlands, et al. "socialist".
That's how your own party defines "socialism". In which case, using your own party's definition, if we look to Norway, France, Denmark, Germany, then socialism is one of the most admired and successful socio-economic systems in human history.
Leading Republicans Refer to Western Europe as "Socialists"
....(and let's not forget, rightwing message boarders have spent years calling western Europe "socialist")......
Lately it seems that not a day goes by without a Republican presidential candidate portraying Europe as a socialist nightmare. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum paint a picture of the Old World as unfree, strangulated by bureaucratic and inefficient welfare systems, and unable to reform and modernize. To these Republicans, Europe seems to be the antipode to everything America is meant to be.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.310f3f267a8a
Leading Republicans Call Western Europe "Socialist"
Newt Gingrich has constantly accused the president of being a "European Socialist", often adding in a reference to an all-but-forgotten community activist from Chicago, who died in 1972, but whose Democratic-leaning writings are thought to have influenced the current president
"I am for the Declaration of Independence; he is for the writing of Saul Alinsky. I am for the Constitution; he is for European socialism," Mr Gingrich told voters in Florida last week.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16583813
Bill O'Reilly noted rightwing blowhard: Western Europe is basically socialist
"I received a letter from Rhonda Hallett who lives in Jacksonville, North Carolina asking me to define Bernie's doctrine of Democratic socialism. Ok. That's basically what some countries in western Europe have, a political system that limits personal income through taxation in return for cradle to grave payouts from the governments. That's the trade."
http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/02/14...atic-socialism
Vice President Mike Pence is on record referring to western Europe as "socialist".
when Representative Mike Pence, Republican of Indiana, denounced “European-style socialism,” in his speech at the conference on Thursday, the jeers from the crowd did not exactly signal an openness to debate it on the merits.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/w...leibovich.html
European socialism taking root in US, Fox News's Stuart Varney says
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...us-varney-says
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