Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 132

Thread: The Creation Of Wealth

  1. #61 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello noise,

    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    not just income but equity, like stocks, buying houses to rent - monies in the bank.
    go buy some jewelry -and innate object of wealth. sell it and get cash..goods and services..

    start a business - invest. Money gets loaned from the bank -banks make money and reinvest.

    You gotta get the idea that moving money ( like a dynamic economy) produces wealth.
    Russia has vast holding of land - some of it not mined/used...is it wealth? no. not until it becomes part of a market
    The problem with thinking that all one has to do in order to create wealth is 'moving money,' is that if everyone simply tried to 'move money' as a job our society would cease to function.

    Somebody has to mow the lawn. Somebody has to build the cars. Somebody has to produce things.

    Money movers produce nothing.

    They take.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  2. #62 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello noise,

    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    in which case (and I'm not going to ask for a cite here, but i'm suspicious) the government is acting as the lender.. so what?
    Government gets it's money from TAXES on GOOD AND SERVICES

    we're building housing and condo, and Lord knows what else here in Florida - not just for US population growth, but foreign investors/home buyers.
    all that creates wealth by construction
    The money doesn't create wealth by construction. It creates jobs. Jobs don't work themselves. Workers have to work the jobs or nothing is created.

    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    Lot's of people own housing and rent as well - the Marxist bogeymen landowner is part of the capitalist generator of wealth.
    Maybe the US Post Office should offer simple banking services. If we took the profit out of that it would allow more growth among the working class.

    There is healthy GDP and there is also unhealthy GDP.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  3. #63 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello Rune,

    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    The 3 F and 2 M of wealth creation;
    Forestry, Farming and Fishing, Mining and Manufacturing.

    Everything else is parasitical.
    Or symbiotic.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  4. #64 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    La Pine, Oregon
    Posts
    5,218
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 1,548 Times in 1,137 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 215 Times in 201 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    not just income but equity, like stocks, buying houses to rent - monies in the bank.
    go buy some jewelry -and innate object of wealth. sell it and get cash..goods and services..

    start a business - invest. Money gets loaned from the bank -banks make money and reinvest.
    It is not the "moving of capital" that defines wealth. Like the house one buys to rent out, the wealth is in the home itself, and what the market determines is its value. The renter actually pays for the house creating wealth for the homeowner. In return the renter receives a place to live. So you have an exchange of one component of wealth creating wealth for another, by the income it generates.

    You gotta get the idea that moving money ( like a dynamic economy) produces wealth.
    If one is to accept that concept, and I am not disagreeing with it, then even socialism creates wealth. It is just a more balanced (equal) form of wealth which is where you fall short in your ideology.

    Russia has vast holding of land - some of it not mined/used...is it wealth? no. not until it becomes part of a market
    Are you actually trying to say that if one wanted to buy that land it has no value until it is sold, and placed on the market?
    "2Timothy 3 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away"

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Old Trapper For This Post:

    PoliTalker (02-19-2019)

  6. #65 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vinland
    Posts
    39,851
    Thanks
    41,529
    Thanked 10,833 Times in 8,248 Posts
    Groans
    11,150
    Groaned 5,899 Times in 5,299 Posts
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tkaffen View Post
    Thanks for proving your stupidity for believing farmers, Fishermen and loggers are wealthy or make up the wealth in this country. What an idiot.
    You know so little it is humorous.
    Do you actually know any fisherman?
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

  7. #66 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vinland
    Posts
    39,851
    Thanks
    41,529
    Thanked 10,833 Times in 8,248 Posts
    Groans
    11,150
    Groaned 5,899 Times in 5,299 Posts
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello noise,



    The problem with thinking that all one has to do in order to create wealth is 'moving money,' is that if everyone simply tried to 'move money' as a job our society would cease to function.

    Somebody has to mow the lawn. Somebody has to build the cars. Somebody has to produce things.

    Money movers produce nothing.

    They take.

    Exactly.
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Rune For This Post:

    PoliTalker (02-19-2019)

  9. #67 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello cawacko,

    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    If most people don’t earn their wealth how do they get it? Why do so many suckers go to work each day? What’s the secret to be rich and avoid it?
    Who said most people don't earn their wealth?

    Some don't. They get millions in an inheritance at birth. Anybody who has millions doesn't really ever have to work. All they have to do is invest it wisely. Thus they become part of the great exploitation machine, the capitalist wealth extraction machine.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  10. #68 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Trapper View Post
    It is not the "moving of capital" that defines wealth. Like the house one buys to rent out, the wealth is in the home itself, and what the market determines is its value. The renter actually pays for the house creating wealth for the homeowner. In return the renter receives a place to live. So you have an exchange of one component of wealth creating wealth for another, by the income it generates.
    we are saying basically the same thing -the transferring of money ( exchange) creates the value of the buying and the renting and the selling of the house

    If one is to accept that concept, and I am not disagreeing with it, then even socialism creates wealth. It is just a more balanced (equal) form of wealth which is where you fall short in your ideology.
    the problem with socialism is it isn't driven by market forces -it's done by dictate.
    So the normal flow of monies exchanged is distorted by regulations.

    Regulations of capital flow are needed - but when the regulations determine 'the flow' (monies exchanged)
    it slows down money movement, and also distort values which impinge economic activity, which is wealth creation
    Are you actually trying to say that if one wanted to buy that land it has no value until it is sold, and placed on the market?
    Im saying land that has no value to be sold has no value by holdings either

  11. #69 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello noise,


    Somebody has to mow the lawn. Somebody has to build the cars. Somebody has to produce things.

    Money movers produce nothing.
    you don't understand the concept. mowing a lawn moves money / building moves money etc.
    sales moves money. It's called economic activity =GDP

  12. #70 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vinland
    Posts
    39,851
    Thanks
    41,529
    Thanked 10,833 Times in 8,248 Posts
    Groans
    11,150
    Groaned 5,899 Times in 5,299 Posts
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    ROFL by now Rune has worked himself into a good froth!
    How much of fallow, non-mineral producing land in Siberia ( my ex) is in wealthy portfolios?
    Again, if you would research before you comment, you would not seem half as much the fool that you are.

    Wealthy people don't buy swamp land in Florida either, do they retard?

    Since you are so incapable, I will give you a head start.

    We need to challenge the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

    In this article Andrew Sayer revives some concepts – ‘unearned income’, ‘rentiers’, ‘functionless investors’, and ‘improperty’ – to explain why the very rich are unjust and dysfunctional. We need to challenge the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators, he argues.

    In light of the news that the richest 80 people in the world have as much wealth as the poorest half of the world’s population, all 3.5 billion of them, and at the time of the plutocrats’ World Economic Forum in Davos, many people are talking about the extraordinary concentration of wealth at the top.
    Here in the UK, the combined wealth of the richest 1,000 people is £519 billion (up from $450 billion in 2013). That’s over 4 times the size of the annual NHS budget (£127 billion), 12 times the size of the education bill (£42 billion), and 9 times the size of the welfare bill (£58 billion). We might well ask which of these figures can’t we afford? Given the tendency of the rich to portray themselves as specially-talented wealth creators we have to ask whether these inequalities are justified. In my new book Why We Can’t Afford the Rich, I argue they are unjust and dysfunctional.
    To show why, we need to consider what economists call ‘the functional distribution of income’ – the different sources of income such as work, rent, interest and profit that go to different people. We can best do this by reviving some concepts which tend to have fallen out of use over the last 40 years – just at the time they were becoming more relevant: ‘unearned income’, ‘rentiers’, ‘functionless investors’, and ‘improperty’.
    Unearned income is derived from control of an already existing asset, such as land, buildings, technology, or money, that others lack but need or want, and who can therefore be charged for its use. Those who receive it are ‘rentiers’. Mere ownership or possession produces nothing, and so any return to an owner merely for access or use is something for nothing. Compare the owner of ‘human capital’, or labour-power, who can only get an income by working – exercising that power to produce things that users want and that don’t already exist, whether it’s a loaf of bread, a computer app, or a school maths lesson.



    If you buy some shares in M&S or BP on the stock market, the money you pay goes to the previous owner, not the company. You are what Keynes called a ‘functionless investor.’ When such so-called ‘investments’ pay off they extract wealth from the economy without creating anything in return. They are parasitic. As with rent, interest and profit from ownership of technology, the money gained can only have value if there are goods and services to buy with it, which means that those who have to produce these in order to make a living have also to produce extra to provide the rentier with unearned income. Rentiers free-ride on the labour of others. Since it’s a payment for nothing that didn’t already exist, it’s a deadweight cost, and so not only unjust but also dysfunctional for the economy. With the dramatic increase in shareholders’ power over companies during the last four decades, Keynes’ functionless investor has escaped the euthanasia he recommended and is thriving on unprecedented flows of unearned income in dividends and speculative gains from trading shares and other securities. Could speculation at least perhaps make markets work more efficiently? Possibly, though we have to ask which markets: are they for rentier opportunities in securities, property, the latest bubble? Rent-seeking needs to be cut back, not made more ‘efficient’.

    Many imagine the era of the rich rentier is over: don’t ‘the working rich’ make up majority of the wealthy now, getting most of their income from salary, not capital gains, or interest payments or rent, etc.? They do indeed, though inherited wealth is considerable (28 per cent of wealth in the UK) and getting bigger as wealth concentrates at the top, as Thomas Piketty has shown; and it mainly provides the children of the rich with huge windfalls. But the working rich in the top 0.1 per cent mostly either work for rentier organisations that collect and seek rent, interest, dividends, capital and speculative gains, or control key positions where they can determine their own pay. This is most obvious in the financial, insurance and property sectors where many rich people work, but companies in the non-finance sector have made an increasing share of their profits in finance too by ‘investing’ in securities. (The scare quotes for ‘investment’ are intended to distinguish it from real investment in new infrastructure, products, technology or training). In the UK in 2008, 69 per cent of the top 0.1 per cent worked in finance and property, 34 per cent were company directors in this and other sectors, and 24 per cent of those in the rest of the 1 per cent were too.
    Studies of many leading capitalist countries show striking declines in the share of output going to labour in recent decades. In the US, the top 1 per cent of those with employment incomes took a rising share of net value-added of US business from the 1980s to 2008. As long as they kept shareholders well-fed with unearned income, CEO incomes were allowed to soar away from average incomes: in the US, 7 CEOs are paid more than 1,000 times average pay. Top corporate officers may not be owners but, particularly with the weakening of organized labour, financial deregulation and globalisation, they have been able to take an increasing share of value-added.
    A house used to live in is property. A house used as a way of extracting unearned income in the form of rent and capital gains is what J.A. Hobson, writing in the 1930s, called ‘improperty’. Many people are part-time rentiers, supplementing their earned income by renting out some improperty. Some may borrow money from big-time rentiers to do this. Buy-to-let is a means by which those with money can make still more money from those with little. We need to tax unearned income like inheritance, rent, interest, dividends, capital gains much more.


    We need a finance sector that is fit for purpose as a servant to the economy instead of a master. Currently, most of what it funds is not productive industry but lending against existing assets: in the UK lending by the financial sector to productive businesses declined from 30 per cent in 1996 to 10 per cent in 2008, and has stayed low since, while lending to other financial institutions and the property market grew. But then, to the financial sector, £1 million profit from useless speculation is no different from £1 million from any other source. Yet the difference matters to the economy as a whole and hence to us.
    There are other reasons why we can’t afford the rich: their undemocratic and indeed antidemocratic influence in politics (witness Davos and TTIP), their excessive and wasteful consumption, their bloated carbon footprints and the fact that many are in effect betting on unsustainable economic growth in the rich countries and have interests in continued fossil fuel use. I deal with all these in my book, but above all, we need to challenge the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators; it is time to halt the flood of unearned income that goes to the top and reassert democracy in facing the challenge of organising economies that stop rather than accelerate global warming.



    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...e-specially-ta
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

  13. #71 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    ^ unread Spam. If you can't tell me what you are trying to say,I'm not going to deduce it for you

  14. #72 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vinland
    Posts
    39,851
    Thanks
    41,529
    Thanked 10,833 Times in 8,248 Posts
    Groans
    11,150
    Groaned 5,899 Times in 5,299 Posts
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    ^ unread Spam. If you can't tell me what you are trying to say,I'm not going to deduce it for you
    Stay stupid
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

  15. #73 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    43,479
    Thanks
    12,574
    Thanked 23,756 Times in 16,563 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,622 Times in 1,532 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    Stay stupid
    remain mute and unable to speak your mind

  16. #74 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    134,850
    Thanks
    13,246
    Thanked 40,785 Times in 32,151 Posts
    Groans
    3,661
    Groaned 2,865 Times in 2,752 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    No you didn't, you just took it from someone else.
    they gave it to me.....in exchange for what I gave to them.......that's how it works.......

  17. #75 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vinland
    Posts
    39,851
    Thanks
    41,529
    Thanked 10,833 Times in 8,248 Posts
    Groans
    11,150
    Groaned 5,899 Times in 5,299 Posts
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    they gave it to me.....in exchange for what I gave to them.......that's how it works.......
    That is correct, however, you didn't produce it.
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

Similar Threads

  1. Is job creation top priority or not?
    By tekkychick in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-26-2013, 08:38 PM
  2. Who's historically better at job creation?
    By Guns Guns Guns in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-17-2012, 07:23 PM
  3. What the Tea Party did instead of job creation
    By Guns Guns Guns in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-31-2011, 11:42 AM
  4. Job creation, rightwing style
    By Guns Guns Guns in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-20-2011, 04:24 PM
  5. The keys to job creation
    By Canceled.LTroll.8 in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 10-17-2010, 08:02 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •