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Thread: Even at Top Colleges, Graduation Gaps Persist for Poor Students

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Tough issue. It's a good thing that kids from economically challenging backgrounds have an opportunity to attend college and give themselves a chance at a better life. What else needs to be done to help them graduate at a higher level?
    Interesting question. My kids all received financial aid (Pell grants, scholarships, student loans). They all worked PT while attending. They all did well.... two have masters degrees even (although of course they did not get financial aid for that). The answer might be the same thing as why some kids do well in h.s. and others struggle. How engaged are their parents with their education? Were they given good study tools? Do they know how to find help on campus if they're struggling? Are they hanging out with kids who would rather socialize and party, or kids who are serious about their education? #1 I think is this -- does that student really WANT to be there, or was attending someone else's idea?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    I don't support illegal immigration but I don't support the wall and don't support the declaration of emergency. I've seen you twist yourself in knots trying to justify the declaration but we all know damn well if someone like Obama had done something similar you would have (rightfully) screamed your head off. This is a simple case of the ends justify's the means and everything else, including future use of a declaration, be damned.

    Supporting a wall isn't a test of one's conservatism. You just make up sh*t as you go.
    You did exactly what I thought you would do and you argued from a leftist point of view. You will notice I didn’t ask you if you supported the wall. I didn’t ask you if you supported the declaration.

    I asked you if you believed we should do allwe can to stop illegal immigration. Saying you don’t support illegal immigration is insufficient if you offer no solutions to stop it.

    So you have said what you oppose with regards to illegal immigration. Now let’s try what to think will stop it.

    So far all you have done is confirm why I don’t think you are a conservative.

    I am glad you care what I think.

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  4. #123 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Love America View Post
    You did exactly what I thought you would do and you argued from a leftist point of view. You will notice I didn’t ask you if you supported the wall. I didn’t ask you if you supported the declaration.

    I asked you if you believed we should do allwe can to stop illegal immigration. Saying you don’t support illegal immigration is insufficient if you offer no solutions to stop it.

    So you have said what you oppose with regards to illegal immigration. Now let’s try what to think will stop it.

    So far all you have done is confirm why I don’t think you are a conservative.

    I am glad you care what I think.
    I know the game you were playing with the question. Don't start patting yourself on the back.

    It's pretty simple, we have an immigration system that needs reform. That's how we deal with the problem.

    And I am spot on regarding your beliefs about the emergency.

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    U
    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    I know the game you were playing with the question. Don't start patting yourself on the back.

    It's pretty simple, we have an immigration system that needs reform. That's how we deal with the problem.

    And I am spot on regarding your beliefs about the emergency.

    Boy you really went out on a limb there didn’t you

    I am amazed you didn’t throw out the “comprehensive immigration reform” bullshit

    Come on genius. Be specific. What needs reformed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    What 400 years of oppression? Be specific now.
    Slavery began in 1619 and was abolished in 1865. The Reconstruction failure ended in 1877. Jim Crow laws were enforced until 1965. Systemic racism from slavery, the failed Reconstruction and Jim Crow laws continue today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    The biggest beneficiary of AA has been (white) women. Today they make up a majority of students at most schools and a majority of graduates. How much longer do they need advantages?
    There is still significant discrimination at the job level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    You are obviously very free to disagree with my position, I don't take it personally. But my position doesn't come from not voting for Trump. If someone else wanted to put a wall up like this I wouldn't support it. Same with the declaration of emergency. It's about what I believe and support which goes far deeper than any politician. It's something ILA doesn't understand.
    Declaration of emergency is one thing -the wall is another.
    You've never explained WHY you don't want a wall -which is nothing more then a security barrier;
    but one of the most effective against foot traffic..they work worldwide

    That is a giant disconnect from you not supporting illegal immigration IMHO

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    I agree, the key to a successful high school student is parent involvement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by climate+equality View Post
    Slavery began in 1619 and was abolished in 1865. The Reconstruction failure ended in 1877. Jim Crow laws were enforced until 1965. Systemic racism from slavery, the failed Reconstruction and Jim Crow laws continue today.
    You are missing significant historical facts there. Quite a few.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    School costs thousands upon thousands of dollars. It changes nothing for a kid to go from $10 to $12 an hour. The issue in the OP is not the minimum wage.
    Tuition at most state colleges is like $7,000 a year. That isn't that much plus there are scholarships available. All this talk about $100,000 a year is BS.
    Reckless drivers are a bigger threat to you than all other criminals put together!

    THE BIG LIE - Blacks and whites are different physically but identical mentally!

    There is no way 81 million americans voted for a man they know is a child molester w dementia. Impeach Joe the Pedophile Vegetable (JPV)

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  17. #131 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by climate+equality View Post
    Slavery began in 1619 and was abolished in 1865. The Reconstruction failure ended in 1877. Jim Crow laws were enforced until 1965. Systemic racism from slavery, the failed Reconstruction and Jim Crow laws continue today.
    The only systemic racism in america is affirmative action and it's everywhere. THINK
    Reckless drivers are a bigger threat to you than all other criminals put together!

    THE BIG LIE - Blacks and whites are different physically but identical mentally!

    There is no way 81 million americans voted for a man they know is a child molester w dementia. Impeach Joe the Pedophile Vegetable (JPV)

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  19. #132 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Tough issue. It's a good thing that kids from economically challenging backgrounds have an opportunity to attend college and give themselves a chance at a better life. What else needs to be done to help them graduate at a higher level?





    Even at Top Colleges, Graduation Gaps Persist for Poor Students

    As elite schools expand access for low-income students, graduation rates lag


    Elite colleges nationwide have increased the number of low-income students they enroll in recent years, but getting those students to graduate has been more challenging.

    The average difference in six-year graduation rates between students who received Pell grants—federal awards for low-income families—and those who didn’t at a particular school was 8.9 percentage points, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of Education Department data. This is based on data from the 2011 entering class at all public and private, nonprofit schools where at least 50 students received Pell grants and 50 didn’t.

    Even at schools where at least two-thirds of students who started in 2011 graduated within six years, the gap was 6.4 percentage points. Pell recipients at those colleges stood a better chance of graduating than elsewhere, but still often significantly lagged behind their classmates. Students with Pell grants had graduation rates at least 10 percentage points lower than other students at schools including Baylor University, Catholic University of America and the University of Pittsburgh.

    As selective liberal arts schools and flagship public universities open their doors wider to students from modest backgrounds, the figures show many of those schools don’t serve poor students as well as they do others.

    “Access without success is a pretty hollow promise,” said Jim Spain, vice provost of undergraduate studies at the University of Missouri. Based on the data, about 53% of students at Missouri who received Pell grants graduated from the school within six years, while 73% of those who didn’t receive the grants completed their programs.

    More than 100 elite colleges and universities are seeking to increase by 50,000 the number of low- and moderate-income students who enroll in and graduate from their colleges by 2025. As part of the Bloomberg Philanthropies-backed American Talent Initiative, schools including Emory University, Lehigh University and the University of Michigan plan to increase Pell enrollment to 20% of their undergraduate student bodies. Nationally, about 32% of undergraduates receive Pell grants.

    But increasing socioeconomic diversity of student populations presents a risk for schools: Poor outcomes for growing Pell-recipient populations could start to drag down overall graduation rates.

    Clemson University is aiming for a six-year graduation rate of 86%, for all students. Eighty-four percent of students without Pell grants now graduate in that time frame, compared with 71% for Pell recipients.

    “Just getting to the institutional goal has to include closing the gap,” said Clemson Provost Bob Jones.

    Colleges and universities say the gaps aren’t due to weaker academic abilities of low-income students, but rather to financial and cultural challenges.

    Schools including Xavier University in Cincinnati and Denison University in Granville, Ohio, have expanded financial aid to cover things like lab fees and textbooks and set aside funds for sorority dues and emergency car repairs. Missouri now pays full tuition for Pell grant recipients who hail from inside the state. And Clemson will offer summer courses to some students this year in an effort to ease freshman-year pressures.

    Robert Kelchen, an assistant professor of higher education at Seton Hall University who compiled the Education Department figures analyzed by the Journal, said schools generally aren’t penalized for poor outcomes related to Pell grant recipients. The federal government spent $28.2 billion on grants to seven million students in the 2017-18 academic year.

    “Most of the accountability is going to be through public shaming,” Dr. Kelchen said. “These are colleges that get a lot of public attention. These are colleges that we want students to attend. And in many cases they have resources to make change.”

    Aaron Meis, vice president for enrollment management and student success at Xavier University, said the public release of Pell graduation rates in recent years—and their inclusion now as a factor in the U.S. News & World Report college rankings—gave him a “sense of urgency.”

    At Xavier, 52% of students who started in 2011 and received Pell grants graduated from Xavier within six years, compared with 73% for non-Pell recipients.

    “Families do have a right to know what they’re investing in. We have a responsibility to show them how well we’re doing or, frankly, how well we’re not doing,” said Mr. Meis.

    Cultural fit can be a major challenge for low-income students at schools that historically have catered to wealthier families.

    “I wanted to transfer my first semester,” said Nicole Flores, a 20-year-old junior at Clemson studying finance and accounting who relies on Pell grants and scholarships to cover most of her college costs.

    Ms. Flores, a Latina first-generation college student, said she often bows out of social events like eating out and going to concerts. She works as a tutor to generate income and plans to graduate a semester early. Even so she is weeks late on paying $140 in dues for her business fraternity.

    “People don’t really understand how the other side lives sometimes,” she said.

    Spelman College in Atlanta is reconsidering how to allocate financial aid and raising more scholarship money, after finding itself losing students three or four years in because they couldn’t pay their last few bills.

    Roughly two-thirds of Pell recipients graduated from that school in six years, compared with 82% for those without Pell grants, according to the federal data.

    Spelman President Mary Schmidt Campbell said the school isn’t rethinking how many low-income students it enrolls, but rather how it uses the minimal resources it has to support them.

    “We’re really asking hard questions of ourselves,” she said.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/even-at...d=hp_lead_pos4
    Better public schools...….stop taking money away from education.

    Racist white men never wanted Blacks educate.

    That's a fact!

  20. #133 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Many states will say the top 10% of each graduating high school class automatically qualify for the top public universities in that state. So it’s very possible a kid from a low performing public school qualifies but in reality isn’t prepared.

    But in that scenario the kid could come from money and still not be prepared.

    J.D. Vance wrote about his struggles with this going to Yale in Hillbilly Elegy. But a guy like Vance is just a loser in ILA’s book so why even broach the subject.
    Stop being a fucking coward and say Blacks don't want to learn or they are illiterate…..that's the basis of your entire premise on this topic.

    You've ran it into the ground for years. The white man has lied about it for years so they can rob the department of education...…

    You're such a fraud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I Love America View Post
    BTW

    You have another shitty premise (very leftist like). Who said I didn't like the topic? I think affirmative action is a great topic.

    I will post anywhere I want and when I want.

    If you don't want me in your threads, you know what to do. You used to do it before, but you stopped. No sweat off my balls, but apparently me thread banning you is sweat off of yours or you wouldn't mention it. I have said many times there are threads in which I have no interest knowing what Trans Righty's and Leftists think.

    You are just upset that I have exposed you as a faux conservative. Yeah, yeah yeah. You like tax cuts. What a right winger you are. Now here is where you go into your diatribe about me being mad because you won't use the dreaded N word blah blah blah distraction distraction distraction.
    Don't let that mofo fool you. He believes just as you do. He wants to eliminate the department of education, he spreads the lies that Blacks don't want to learn and teacher get paid too much.

    He's just trying to package his ideology up in a pretty bow to seem as if he's not a racist.

    Non racist can see right through him and his post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I Love America View Post
    You are pro open borders
    You are pro abortion
    You support shitty trade agreements that fuck over American workers
    You support big money in education
    You probably think yourself a "compassionate conservative" which is basically a big government lefty that likes tax cuts.
    What an idiot. You clearly don't read his post.

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