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Thread: Big Problem For The Right: 'Socialism' Is No Longer A Bad Word. You Must Now Explain

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Not unless they start slaughtering people in the street or driving refugees out to become burders to others.
    Well, they already did that in the 60s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    They are desperately trying to make it a bad word again, trying to tie it to the situation the US created in Venezuela.
    It basically comes down to this: Conservatives invested entire political careers and message board careers hollering that western Europe and Scandinavia are socialist.

    This is the year 2019, and millennials are pretty much aware that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, Netherlands, Finland, Iceland are pretty decent places to live, and very civilized by world standards.

    Leading Republicans Call Western Europe "Socialist"

    Newt Gingrich has constantly accused the president of being a "European Socialist", often adding in a reference to an all-but-forgotten community activist from Chicago, who died in 1972, but whose Democratic-leaning writings are thought to have influenced the current president

    "I am for the Declaration of Independence; he is for the writing of Saul Alinsky. I am for the Constitution; he is for European socialism," Mr Gingrich told voters in Florida last week.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16583813

    Leading Republicans Refer to Western Europe as "Socialists"

    ....(and let's not forget, rightwing message boarders have spent years calling western Europe "socialist")......

    Lately it seems that not a day goes by without a Republican presidential candidate portraying Europe as a socialist nightmare. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum paint a picture of the Old World as unfree, strangulated by bureaucratic and inefficient welfare systems, and unable to reform and modernize. To these Republicans, Europe seems to be the antipode to everything America is meant to be.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.310f3f267a8a

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    Hello Howard,

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard the Duck View Post
    Socialism may not be the most vile and horrible notion in the history of mankind, like Marxism, but, it continues to demonstrate the penchant for violent dysfunction that is typical of illiberalism, to include progressivism.
    Well there's your problem if you don't see any difference in socialism and liberalism; and you think they are violent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Howard,



    Well there's your problem if you don't see any difference in socialism and liberalism; and you think they are violent.
    Learn to read. I conflated, correctly, illiberalism with socialism (which it is). Progressivism and socialism are both illiberal, as are monarchy, Marxism, and fascism.

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    Hello Howard the Duck,

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard the Duck View Post
    Cuba cripples its own economy by forcibly telling its people that they may not engage in free enterprise.
    How is that capitalism thing working out for Puerto Rico?
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello kudzu,

    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    I have to wonder why American busy bodies have to get so exercised about other forms of government in other countries whether they are monarchies, constitutional monarchies, democratic socialists, socialists or communists....
    It is because they have all these doubts about American capitalism. It treats a few extremely well, many fairly well, but then there are these very troubling people who fall through the cracks. Is it possible for anyone in America to succeed beyond their dreams? Of course it is, but it only rarely happens. 78% of Americans have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck. Some great system. No wonder people have to dwell on and even make up things about other systems. It's easier to believe you're part of a good thing when others have it worse than you.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Cypress,

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    It basically comes down to this: Conservatives invested entire political careers and message board careers hollering that western Europe and Scandinavia are socialist.

    This is the year 2019, and millennials are pretty much aware that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France, Netherlands, Finland, Iceland are pretty decent places to live, and very civilized by world standards.
    I don't understand why we would not take a serious closer look at how things are organized in nations where they live longer than the USA and have fewer gun deaths.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Cypress,



    I don't understand why we would not take a serious closer look at how things are organized in nations where they live longer than the USA and have fewer gun deaths.
    Because we label them and call them different and dangerous. Our medical system is a mess and should be universal. Our tax structure is designed to move money to the top. We have to make changes for truth, freedom and the American way. We are headed to Fascism with Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Cypress,



    I don't understand why we would not take a serious closer look at how things are organized in nations where they live longer than the USA and have fewer gun deaths.
    I understand perfectly well why.

    Conservatives don't think we should have a Scandanavian-model democratic socialist welfare state because our country has high percentages of "lazy", criminal brown people who cannot be trusted to participate in a social welfare system, and would seek to take advantage of it to live a life of leisure. The whites of Sweden can obviously be "trusted" to the mind of a conservative.

    You don't even have to take my word for it. There are about five billion examples on this one message board alone where conservatives wrote that blacks only vote for the Democratic Party "to get free stuff".

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    Hello Howard the Duck,

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard the Duck View Post
    Learn to read.
    I suggest you read my PIP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard the Duck View Post
    I conflated, correctly, illiberalism with socialism (which it is). Progressivism and socialism are both illiberal, as are monarchy, Marxism, and fascism.
    That's trying to over-simplify the world. It's really more complex than that. If all those words meant the same thing we wouldn't need so many words. The reason we have these different words is because they are not the same thing.

    I interpret ill-placed criticism as a sign that an attempt is being made to distract from a truth one wishes were not so.

    And the troubling truth is: Socialism is no longer a bad word.

    And that is a big problem for the right, which once had only to use the magic S-word to shut down a discussion, but now has to explain why this is so undesirable.

    As we see, there is a great struggling to rise to this new challenge.

    It is complicated by the fact that the USA has been using socialism, and mixing it with capitalism, quite successfully for a long time.

    Many claim that capitalism has produced the highest standard of living in history for the USA. The problem with that is it is not entirely true. The standard of living in the USA kinda stunk until the New Deal. After we got a minimum wage, Social Security, and numerous government assistance programs, the standard of living in the USA shot WAY up. Thanks as much to socialism as to capitalism.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    They are desperately trying to make it a bad word again, trying to tie it to the situation the US created in Venezuela.
    they know they can whip up their low iq base, their reptilian brains are binary
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello kudzu,



    It is because they have all these doubts about American capitalism. It treats a few extremely well, many fairly well, but then there are these very troubling people who fall through the cracks. Is it possible for anyone in America to succeed beyond their dreams? Of course it is, but it only rarely happens. 78% of Americans have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck. Some great system. No wonder people have to dwell on and even make up things about other systems. It's easier to believe you're part of a good thing when others have it worse than you.

    Makes a lot of sense.
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Howard the Duck,



    I suggest you read my PIP.



    That's trying to over-simplify the world. It's really more complex than that. If all those words meant the same thing we wouldn't need so many words. The reason we have these different words is because they are not the same thing.

    I interpret ill-placed criticism as a sign that an attempt is being made to distract from a truth one wishes were not so.

    And the troubling truth is: Socialism is no longer a bad word.

    And that is a big problem for the right, which once had only to use the magic S-word to shut down a discussion, but now has to explain why this is so undesirable.

    As we see, there is a great struggling to rise to this new challenge.

    It is complicated by the fact that the USA has been using socialism, and mixing it with capitalism, quite successfully for a long time.

    Many claim that capitalism has produced the highest standard of living in history for the USA. The problem with that is it is not entirely true. The standard of living in the USA kinda stunk until the New Deal. After we got a minimum wage, Social Security, and numerous government assistance programs, the standard of living in the USA shot WAY up. Thanks as much to socialism as to capitalism.
    Again with the reading comprehension. I didn't say that progressivism, socialism, Marxism, monarchy, and fascism have the same meaning. I pointed-out that they are illiberal, which is the first reason any of them should be rejected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard the Duck View Post
    Again with the reading comprehension. I didn't say that progressivism, socialism, Marxism, monarchy, and fascism have the same meaning. I pointed-out that they are illiberal, which is the first reason any of them should be rejected.
    Fascism is about as right wing as you can get, that why you support it!

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