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Thread: Energy Independence? In Al Gore's Hypocritically Energy Wasting Dreams!

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    Default Energy Independence? In Al Gore's Hypocritically Energy Wasting Dreams!

    Let’s get something out of the way from the outset, dear friends and faithful readers. I’ll try to be as blunt and clear as possible, so there are no misunderstandings or confusion.

    Using current technologies, methods and resources, unless you DRAMATICALLY decrease the size of the American economy, our standard of living and ultimately the size of our population we will NEVER again achieve the state of energy independence.

    NEVER.

    No matter how much wind power we harness, how many rivers we dam, how much uranium we run through reactors, how much corn we convert, how much coal we liquefy or how many wells we drill, we will NEVER be able to fuel an economy and society of our current size independently again. Much less one expected to grow and expand off into the future.

    Anyone who tells you otherwise is:

    A) Poorly informed, misguided and naive

    B) Pursuing marketplace advantages and profits

    C) Grinding a political axe or promoting an agenda

    D) Patently lying and pandering to rising public fears and economic pressures

    E) A combination of all of the above

    In addition to holding down the first and third spots on the list of exporters of oil to the United States, Canada and Mexico also provide us with significant quantities of natural gas and electricity. While our next door neighbors aren’t the ones most Americans immediately think of when you say “foreign oil”, they are in fact foreign and their exports are critical to our economy.

    While many point to expanded ethanol use as the cure to our imported oil hangover, we fail to produce enough domestically to meet current government requirements and import tankers full of it from Brazil. That’s not even mentioning the negative impact of diverting increasing amounts of corn to ethanol.

    While you may grouse about the price of steak at your local supermarket, food riots have broken out in various locales across the globe as people can’t afford to purchase increasingly insufficient supplies of basic staples. There is the unsettling realization globally that we may have traded famine for fuel in our rush to pursue independent and environmentally-friendly sources of energy. Kudos to Granddaddy Green himself, Al Gore, who developed the corn to ethanol process and showed us the error of our ways shortly before he invented the Internet!

    The message is clear. Absent the development of a miraculous new technology or process, Senators Clinton and Obama’s declarations to the contrary notwithstanding, the United States, no matter how hard it tries, will never again be energy independent.

    Being an avid scholar and trying to set a good example for my tormented students, I do my best to back up my pompous pronouncements with Herculean amounts of research and data. In the course of my recent readings I've had the pleasure of devouring Robert Bryce's "Gusher of Lies: The Dangerous Delusions of Energy Independence". Note that it is therefore currently on "The Bare Knuckled Book List".

    Should you question my contention that America will never again reach the promised land of energy independence, I would highly recommend you read Mr. Bryce's indepth and easily digestible analysis of the issue. He will enlighten you, much to Gore's chagrin, about the potential energy generated by a home solar cell system and the amount of time it takes to recoup the initial investment in the system. While the energy benefits are marginal, recouping the initial investment will set you back twenty years. Yes, read 'em and weep, Al. Twenty years.

    Meanwhile, Gore's utility bills for the last two years averaged $30,000-a-year for his 20-room mansion in the uber-posh Belle Meade section of Nashville. The 10,000 square foot home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006 alone, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours. Way to take a hit for the team, Al! The polar bears appreciate your sacrfice!

    As Carly Simon so poignantly said, faithful readers, I haven't got time for the pain. Or in Saint Al's case, the hypocrisy. So stay clear of clouds and pray long and hard for that silver bullet because we're currently packing blanks when it comes to any serious plan regarding our energy future, or lack thereof.

    Stay tuned for further updates as Al Gore's ego and wonderfully creative imagination warrents!
    Last edited by The Bare Knuckled Pundit; 05-23-2008 at 12:42 PM. Reason: format
    http://bareknuckledpundit.com/

    Scientia Potentia Est

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    Public transport and community planning.


    A couple of things the liberals have been talking about since I was in high school.

    The ideas always get laughed off as stupid.

    How many older people are now seeking little town centers which have everything in walking distance to retire in? There are tons of peopel looking for just this type of living.

    The Big Box stores have helped to kill these types of areas in our towns and cities for decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desh View Post
    Public transport and community planning.


    A couple of things the liberals have been talking about since I was in high school.

    The ideas always get laughed off as stupid.

    How many older people are now seeking little town centers which have everything in walking distance to retire in? There are tons of peopel looking for just this type of living.

    The Big Box stores have helped to kill these types of areas in our towns and cities for decades.
    One-stop shopping centers have killed community living and public transportation ?? Think before you post ,Desh.

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    You are just not getting it.

    The one stop shopping big box kill kthe little guy compitition and you lose the little neighborhood businesses that used to make it possible to walk to the corner market or drug store and get what you needed for the day withoutdriving.

    Pay attention guy.

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    I think you are unnecessarily and unconvincingly pessimistic. I believe that the US has the capability to figure out the next energy product and be the producer and profit from the discovery. Not only can we be energy independent, I believe that we will be.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desh View Post
    You are just not getting it.

    The one stop shopping big box kill kthe little guy compitition and you lose the little neighborhood businesses that used to make it possible to walk to the corner market or drug store and get what you needed for the day withoutdriving.

    Pay attention guy.
    I think that's called 'the internet' now-a-days.
    You Are Not So Smart Podcast - A celebration of Self-Delusion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    I think you are unnecessarily and unconvincingly pessimistic. I believe that the US has the capability to figure out the next energy product and be the producer and profit from the discovery. Not only can we be energy independent, I believe that we will be.
    I completely hope that is the case, Damocles. However, my point was that with the current technology and processes, that will sadly and painfully not occur.
    http://bareknuckledpundit.com/

    Scientia Potentia Est

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bare Knuckled Pundit View Post
    I completely hope that is the case, Damocles. However, my point was that with the current technology and processes, that will sadly and painfully not occur.
    Of course not, but all things are not static. This assumes that we will never make discoveries that we know will be made, that are just over the horizon. Much of the testing is being done as we type.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    I think you are unnecessarily and unconvincingly pessimistic. I believe that the US has the capability to figure out the next energy product and be the producer and profit from the discovery. Not only can we be energy independent, I believe that we will be.
    For most commercial properties.... payback on solar is now one year. ONE year.

    Get on your local businesses... it is a sound investment that will create a cash flow for their business in year two.... AND it reduces the use of power from fossil fuel sources.
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    For most commercial properties.... payback on solar is now one year. ONE year.

    Get on your local businesses... it is a sound investment that will create a cash flow for their business in year two.... AND it reduces the use of power from fossil fuel sources.
    If this is true, then it should only be three to five years for residential properties.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bare Knuckled Pundit View Post
    I completely hope that is the case, Damocles. However, my point was that with the current technology and processes, that will sadly and painfully not occur.
    1) That is largely due to ignorance of what is currently available

    2) It is coupled with a lack of investment in the alt energy sector while oil remained artificially low for decades.

    3) It is ridiculous to suggest we will not get there. We have several avenues that can be taken to be energy independent. Some involve the use of fossil fuels others alt energy....

    a) Solar: Most commercial buildings can be converted with one year payback of investment

    b) An estimated 120 billion brls of oil are sitting untapped in the US (not counting ANWR). Start tapping it NOW. Half of that amount represents 7.5 years of our current oil consumption.
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    If this is true, then it should only be three to five years for residential properties.
    Residential is still about 15 years. The Fed gives much nicer rebates to businesses than they do residential.
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    Residential is still about 15 years. The Fed gives much nicer rebates to businesses than they do residential.
    Ah, well. That sucks.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Ah, well. That sucks.
    For now. Headed up to CSU next week with the Chamber Alt energy task force to see some of the new tech coming.

    There should also be a push to get Congress to consider switching the eternal subsidies for grain based ethanol into better tax rebates for residential solar.
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    For most commercial properties.... payback on solar is now one year. ONE year.

    Get on your local businesses... it is a sound investment that will create a cash flow for their business in year two.... AND it reduces the use of power from fossil fuel sources.
    Those figures are due to the business purchase of solar systems being heavily subsidized. Until solar can compete without heavy subsidies providing the infrastructure, it will not be a viable energy source. That point in time will come with additional research in production techniques and cell efficiency. But it is still a ways off.

    Residential is worse because there are not as many subsidy programs available.

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