Why Can't Trans People Serve In The Military? The Reasons Given By Trump Are Refuted.

[PoliTalker]

There is no military justification for Trump's position.

It's just hateful.

Men can serve.

Women can serve.

What difference does it make if some of them were born as a different sex?

What law have they broken?

How are they any less capable?

What POSSIBLE real problem MIGHT result? (None have ever.)

PoliTalker anti-troll thread thief disclaimer: If this thread is stolen, plagiarized, will the thief have the nerve to use the entire OP, word for word? Including this disclaimer? If you want my take on it, you'll have to post to this original PoliTalker thread. I refuse to be an enabler for online bullies, so I won't post to a stolen thread. I won't even read it. If you don't see me, PoliTalker, posting in this thread check the author. This might be a hijacked thread, not the original.

President Trump is being hateful (as usual.)

[Sirthinksalot]

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. Do you really believe we should have mentally ill people in the military?

[PoliTalker]

Hello Sirthinksalot,

Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

That is not supported by evidence.

Do you really believe we should have mentally ill people in the military?

People should not be excluded from serving over misinformed opinion.

[Sirthinksalot]

Hello Sirthinksalot,



That is not supported by evidence.



People should not be excluded from serving over misinformed opinion.

Hi Politalker,

Gender dysphoria is mentally disagreeing with biological reality. It is not hateful to realize that obvious truth. We don't reinforce an anorexic person's wrong belief that they are overweight. Neither should we believe a man who says he's a woman and vice versa. I'm all for allowing people to live as they choose, but don't expect me to agree with their break from reality.

As for serving in the military, that is not a right. The Commander in chief should decide military policy that prioritizes what is best for our military, not some imagined right to serve.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Sirthinksalot,

Hi Politalker,

Gender dysphoria is mentally disagreeing with biological reality. It is not hateful to realize that obvious truth. We don't reinforce an anorexic person's wrong belief that they are overweight. Neither should we believe a man who says he's a woman and vice versa. I'm all for allowing people to live as they choose, but don't expect me to agree with their break from reality.

As for serving in the military, that is not a right. The Commander in chief should decide military policy that prioritizes what is best for our military, not some imagined right to serve.

We have no right to limit freedom in this way.

And if the CIC was going to 'prioritize what is best for our military,' he would listen to the commanders of the branches of the military who have all said this has presented no problems for the trans people already serving. NO PROBLEMS.

There is zero evidence to support what the President says.

You just don't like these people. You are uncomfortable with the idea of being around them, and you want to limit their freedom, limit their numbers. That's wrong. You argue they have no right to exist. That's wrong. They have a right to exist and do what they want with their own body. Why don't you listen to them? They all say the same thing: They simply don't feel comfortable with their sex, that they feel like a person of the opposite sex, and it makes their life very difficult. They wish to exist as the opposite sex, and to be recognized as that. I take them for their word. And I don't think they have a mental illness:

"Gender dysphoria used to be called “gender identity disorder.” But the mismatch between body and internal sense of gender is not a mental illness. Instead, what need to be addressed are the stress, anxiety, and depression that go along with it."

WebMD

They're not causing any trouble. Why not just live and let live?

[dukkha]

do some research. those who went thru surgery are eligible as long as it's been 3 years since.

The objection is those who want to go thru transgender while serving -losing 2 years of readiness off a 4 year enlistment

[Tkaffen]

The cost for sex reassignment therapist are expensive and not covered by insurance.
However if you are in the military there is coverage in Tricare the military health care program.
Many join for this treatment.

The men and women of the armed services have to remain combat ready at all times. A soldier who have transitioned medically require regular hormone treatments and follow up visits after sex reassignment surgery.

How would you house soldiers that are transgender.
There are physical fitness standards based on biological sex not the subjective gender identity.

At this time the military is unable to commodity people who identify as transgender.

[Tkaffen]

“We have no right to limit freedom in this way”. That is a stupid statement.

There are rules in the military.

I’m over the age of 35. Is the military limiting my freedom to join the military?? Should I cry age discrimination.
Don’t you think there are reasons why there is an age requirement just like there are reasons transgenders should not be allowed.

The first think the left does is cry discrimination when this happens.

A few years ago the world was laughing at the US when the big issue of the day was whether to have a third bathroom for transgenders or whether to allow a biological male who identifies as a female use the ladies room. What an embarrassment.
It must have been a slow news day. Nothing else happening in the world other than which bathroom 0.6% of the population will use.

[Sirthinksalot]

Hi Politalker,

Hello Sirthinksalot,

We have no right to limit freedom in this way.

And if the CIC was going to 'prioritize what is best for our military,' he would listen to the commanders of the branches of the military who have all said this has presented no problems for the trans people already serving. NO PROBLEMS.

The restrictions don't apply to people already serving.

There is zero evidence to support what the President says.

You just don't like these people. You are uncomfortable with the idea of being around them, and you want to limit their freedom, limit their numbers. That's wrong. You argue they have no right to exist. That's wrong. They have a right to exist and do what they want with their own body.

I have no problem with trans people whatsoever. I have no objection to them doing whatever they want with their bodies. (I support legalization of all drugs and assisted suicide too. People should literally be able to do anything they want with their own bodies as long as it doesn't violate the rights of others, IMO). I have NEVER asserted a desire to limit their freedoms or numbers, and I certainly never said that they don't have a right to exist.

Why don't you listen to them? They all say the same thing: They simply don't feel comfortable with their sex, that they feel like a person of the opposite sex, and it makes their life very difficult. They wish to exist as the opposite sex, and to be recognized as that.

That's all well and good, but as you just said, they feel like a person of the opposite sex. I consider their feelings to be valid. But at the end of the day, what someone feels doesn't always align with reality. I can respect a person's feelings and address them with their preferred pronoun. But I do not have to agree with their biologically inaccurate perceptions.

I take them for their word. And I don't think they have a mental illness:

"Gender dysphoria used to be called “gender identity disorder.” But the mismatch between body and internal sense of gender is not a mental illness. Instead, what need to be addressed are the stress, anxiety, and depression that go along with it."

WebMD

The WHO stopped classifying gender dysphoria as a mental illness less than a year ago, and in my humble opinion it was based far more on political considerations than scientific ones. So gender dysphoria leads to an increase in "stress, anxiety, and depression"? Does that sound like a positive for the military? Nevermind, that's neither here nor there. This issue is being misrepresented anyway. I think Damocles explained the situation very well in a different thread:

If somebody with diabetes cannot join because they need injections that cannot be guaranteed in a war theatre, it makes sense to have post-op transgender folks, or those undergoing hormone treatment pre-op, to have the same limitation for the same reason. Not to be against transgender folks, but they do require hormone treatment for the rest of their lives to maintain.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...18#post2847318

They're not causing any trouble. Why not just live and let live?

I am more than willing to live and let live. But, again no one has the right to serve in the military.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Sirthinksalot,

Hi Politalker,
The restrictions don't apply to people already serving.

But the fact that they are already serving with no problems indicates the President's arguments against it are not valid.

I have no problem with trans people whatsoever.

Sounds like you do: "Gender dysphoria is mentally disagreeing with biological reality. It is not hateful to realize that obvious truth. We don't reinforce an anorexic person's wrong belief that they are overweight. Neither should we believe a man who says he's a woman and vice versa. I'm all for allowing people to live as they choose, but don't expect me to agree with their break from reality."

If you are for allowing them to live as they choose, but they choose to serve and you stand against that, then you are not for allowing them to live as they choose. You can't have that both ways.

I have no objection to them doing whatever they want with their bodies. (I support legalization of all drugs and assisted suicide too. People should literally be able to do anything they want with their own bodies as long as it doesn't violate the rights of others, IMO). I have NEVER asserted a desire to limit their freedoms or numbers, and I certainly never said that they don't have a right to exist.

Then you should have no objection to them serving. Who knows? This bad and hateful policy could be excluding one of the greatest future generals ever known, and there could come a time when that would be sorely needed. Our military deserves to Be All It Can Be. Do not limit that possibility. That makes no sense.

That's all well and good, but as you just said, they feel like a person of the opposite sex. I consider their feelings to be valid. But at the end of the day, what someone feels doesn't always align with reality. I can respect a person's feelings and address them with their preferred pronoun. But I do not have to agree with their biologically inaccurate perceptions.

No, you don't. But we have no right to limit the freedoms of those with whom we disagree with unreasonable laws, regulations or edicts. As a libertarian you should agree with that.

The WHO stopped classifying gender dysphoria as a mental illness less than a year ago, and in my humble opinion it was based far more on political considerations than scientific ones. So gender dysphoria leads to an increase in "stress, anxiety, and depression"? Does that sound like a positive for the military? Nevermind, that's neither here nor there. This issue is being misrepresented anyway. I think Damocles explained the situation very well in a different thread:

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...18#post2847318

That is speculative. It has not been the reality. Again, it has never been reported as a problem to date.

I am more than willing to live and let live. But, again no one has the right to serve in the military.

Nonsense. Everyone has an implicit right to serve if they qualify.

[Text Drivers are Killers]

Trannies are crazy people that don't even know if they're male or female. They're like people who think they're actually dogs.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Tkaffen,

“We have no right to limit freedom in this way”. That is a stupid statement.

The statement is in total agreement with the very basis of our nation, that all people have equal freedom.

There are rules in the military.

I’m over the age of 35. Is the military limiting my freedom to join the military?? Should I cry age discrimination.

Go ahead. It has no bearing on this discussion.

Don’t you think there are reasons why there is an age requirement just like there are reasons transgenders should not be allowed.

No, I don't see those two issues as similar.

A few years ago the world was laughing at the US when the big issue of the day was whether to have a third bathroom for transgenders or whether to allow a biological male who identifies as a female use the ladies room. What an embarrassment.

The world was laughing at conservatives over that one just as much as the world laughed at 'Freedom Fries.'

[evince]

There is no military justification for Trump's position.

It's just hateful.

Men can serve.

Women can serve.

What difference does it make if some of them were born as a different sex?

What law have they broken?

How are they any less capable?

What POSSIBLE real problem MIGHT result? (None have ever.)

PoliTalker anti-troll thread thief disclaimer: If this thread is stolen, plagiarized, will the thief have the nerve to use the entire OP, word for word? Including this disclaimer? If you want my take on it, you'll have to post to this original PoliTalker thread. I refuse to be an enabler for online bullies, so I won't post to a stolen thread. I won't even read it. If you don't see me, PoliTalker, posting in this thread check the author. This might be a hijacked thread, not the original.

President Trump is being hateful (as usual.)

you don't fire a gun with your sex parts


its merely hate filled crap to distract people

[evince]

Trannies are crazy people that don't even know if they're male or female. They're like people who think they're actually dogs.

there are people born with both male and female genitalia


Its all sceincey

you wont like it because you hate science


and math


and history

[TOP]

there are people born with both male and female genitalia


Its all sceincey

you wont like it because you hate science


and math


and history

Transgenders are "sciencey", math‘ and history? Do tell.. '