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Thread: We Are All Part Of A Big Collective. Socialism Is Merely Us Looking Out For Us.

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    Default We Are All Part Of A Big Collective. Socialism Is Merely Us Looking Out For Us.

    We humans exist as part of a larger society. Together, we have combined power. Socialism is nothing but we humans looking out for ourselves.

    Capitalism is based on greedy humans looking out for themselves. Their power is having lots of money.

    It is possible to operate in the capitalist world in an altruistic way if one adheres to a philosophy of win/win dealing.

    People who think that in order for them to win, somebody else has to lose are not helpful to society. They are only helpful to themselves. And they may cause damage to others as a consequence of their selfishness.

    PoliTalker anti-troll thread thief disclaimer: If this thread is stolen, plagiarized, will the thief have the nerve to use the entire OP, word for word? Including this disclaimer? If you want my take on it, you'll have to post to this original PoliTalker thread. I refuse to be an enabler for online bullies, so I won't post to a stolen thread. I won't even read it. If you don't see me, PoliTalker, posting in this thread check the author. This might be a hijacked thread, not the original.

    People who have high morals look out for others and are considerate of what happens to others. They understand the logic of positive interaction being mutually beneficial.

    People who believe that business deals should be beneficial for both parties, or all parties, have high morals, because their position is based on consideration for others.

    When we are considerate of others, when we are good to others; that good goes out into the world, gets passed from person to person, and then it comes back to us. That's why we have a saying that what goes around comes around. It works monetarily because when we give money to those who have none, they spend it, and that makes the economy larger. It raises the GDP. Helping the poor raises the GDP, and a strong GDP benefits everyone.

    And the converse of what goes around comes around is also true. So if you are bad to other people, then bad things happen to you. You hurt China with tariffs, their stock market goes down, people who are invested in that lose, and it drags OUR stock market down. It's all interconnected in the collective.

    Hence, it is morally correct to be a socialist, to embrace living as a member of the great collective of humans we call society.

    It is morally correct to believe in win/win philosophy, and it is morally defunct to believe in win/lose.

    We can have positive capitalism, which is properly regulated by our government, which derives it's power from the collective of individuals.

    We can have capitalism mixed with socialism. This is indicated because it is a win/win deal. When we take care of those who cannot care for themselves, that energy comes back to us as good energy. That helps us do better in life, and enjoy life more.

    And, of course, enjoying life is the goal. Some morally defunct people believe that getting rich is the goal, but that is shallow thinking. Why do they want to get rich? Because they believe that being rich leads to being happy. Well, if one can simply manage to be happy without being fabulously rich, then you've beaten the myth of wealth being the only way to be happy.

    People who use win/lose dealing to get rich can never really be happy because they will always know that they had to cheat someone else to get it. And that is wrong, because that is based on the belief that wealth is created by taking it away from someone else. Which is ridiculous because it's not like humans evolved into a world with bunches of money laying around. Humans invented wealth. Humans BUILT wealth. The way wealth is created is by building or creating something valuable.

    Those who seek to gather wealth by getting it away from others are shallow, and do not understand the big picture. They don't see how they fit into the world, and they also like to pretend that we are not part of a collective. They will even go so far as to come onto a website on an internet (the same internet which was created by many humans working together as a part of a collective,) to proclaim that THEY are not part of any collective; that THEY are 'individuals.' How absurd.

    Well, of course they are individuals. Despite what they may believe or say, they are individuals who exist as part of a big collective of humans on Planet Earth. And each individual makes whatever contribution they can to the collective, sometimes freely, other times only as a reward for performing a task called work. The combined efforts of all those individuals contributing to the collective advances.

    Wealth inequality is reported to have grown since President Trump has been in office. Last year, 43 people in the world owned as much as the poorest 3.7 billion people. This year, only 26 people own as much as the poorest 3.8 billion people. Improperly regulated capitalism is funneling the productivity of the entire world into concentrated wealth pockets owned by a handful of fewer and fewer people as poverty grows.

    Improperly regulated runaway capitalism is hurting society more than it is helping it. We need more education, and more people speaking out for common sense policy from government.

    We, The People, need to get better informed; and flex our power of numbers to counter the power of big money wielded by the rich.
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    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism


    Definition of capitalism
    : an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market


    to condem this system is to keep people from using their ideas to mutually benefit themselves and others.


    the greed is NOT in the capitalism

    It is in the population

    SO like any other human interactions there have to be rules to keep the greedy from RUINING it for everyone


    fettering


    Rules, regulations, inspections, taxes

    making sure that no one is taking an unfair advantage of others


    IT WORKS AWESOME when their are intelligent rules designed by the people in a democratic way


    give me ONE decent nation that bans capitalism
    Last edited by evince; 01-22-2019 at 12:40 PM.

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    the founders were brilliant huh


    they crated a Hybrid of all the best of ideas

    It aint perfect (humans) but it does try to become More perfect when the people have fair elections

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    Hello evince,

    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism


    Definition of capitalism
    : an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market


    to condem this system is to keep people from using their ideas to mutually benefit themselves and others.
    I agree. We want the best of what capitalism has to offer society.

    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    the greed is NOT in the capitalism

    It is in the population

    SO like any other human interactions there have to be rules to keep the greedy from RUINING it for everyone


    fettering


    Rules, regulations, inspections, taxes

    making sure that no one is taking an unfair advantage of others


    IT WORKS AWESOME when their are intelligent rules designed by the people in a democratic way


    give me ONE decent nation that bans capitalism
    I can't think of one and I would not want to ban capitalism. I'm not sure why you think I do. The OP doesn't say that.

    I agree that capitalism should be mixed with socialism just as we do now. I just think we need to tweak the balance a little bit because what we have now makes wealth inequality more extreme and dangerous to our economy. We need better regulation of the most lucrative industries including big finance, big insurance, big pharma, and big fossil fuel extraction.
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    The We democrats are smarter and more moral than anybody who disagrees with us schtick is played out. Socialism is correct to the morals of socialists just as capitalism is correct for the morals of capitalists. Everybody must believe in win/win is meaningless rhetoric. A mass shooting sucks for the victims but it is a big pay day for the undertaker..

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    Hello Kacper,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    The We democrats are smarter and more moral than anybody who disagrees with us schtick is played out. Socialism is correct to the morals of socialists just as capitalism is correct for the morals of capitalists. Everybody must believe in win/win is meaningless rhetoric. A mass shooting sucks for the victims but it is a big pay day for the undertaker..
    Nope. Sorry. We can no longer allow win/lose capitalism. The power of capitalism has grown too great. It must be reigned in and balanced with the proper amount of socialism. Government control and proper regulation is the only way forward. Improperly / unregulated capitalism will eat itself and everything if we don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Kacper,



    Nope. Sorry. We can no longer allow win/lose capitalism. The power of capitalism has grown too great. It must be reigned in and balanced with the proper amount of socialism. Government control and proper regulation is the only way forward. Improperly / unregulated capitalism will eat itself and everything if we don't.
    You don't have a choice in the matter. You don't have a say in the choice. It was made before you were born and it will be here long after you are dust. The power of capitalism is too great nonsense does not comport with reality. How many people live in a company town these days where they work for the company, live in a company owned or financed house, and shop at the company store? The answer is nobody. Capitalism isn't too strong. People are just too damn lazy and entitled. You can move in the great outdoors and live off the land and reject capitalism, but you chose not to. That is not capitalism's fault.

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    Hello Kacper,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    You don't have a choice in the matter. You don't have a say in the choice. It was made before you were born and it will be here long after you are dust. The power of capitalism is too great nonsense does not comport with reality. How many people live in a company town these days where they work for the company, live in a company owned or financed house, and shop at the company store? The answer is nobody. Capitalism isn't too strong. People are just too damn lazy and entitled. You can move in the great outdoors and live off the land and reject capitalism, but you chose not to. That is not capitalism's fault.
    It sounds like you breezed through the OP too fast. All of this has been covered in the OP.

    I am not arguing to take away capitalism. It is a wonderful engine of productivity, but like any powerful engine, it must be properly controlled. If it runs wide open it will blow up.

    The thing this engine of capitalism requires is called a governor. The speed must be governed, regulated so that it doesn't run away.

    Fortunately we have a government which can and should control capitalism through proper regulation.

    Basic logic.
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    It is natural for humans to have their eyes on somebody else's wealth and paycheck, just as it is natural for dogs to have their eyes on the food that other dogs are eating. Humans do not generally like to work, which is why we don't do it unless we are paid. People will always be plotting ways to get other people's stuff without having to earn it, and this is why socialism will never die. Our natural feral condition is that we each own everything in the world, but we eventually learn otherwise. Socialism and communism are the next natural steps once we realize that none of us can own everything. It feels better for many, especially to bottom feeders, to know that nobody owns anything.
    The Truth Does Not Need To Be Supported With Censorship.

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    Free enterprise is a great system for giving us choice in consumer products. Smart phones. Razor blades. Video games. Beer.

    The social welfare state - otherwise thought of by the Reichwing as Kenyan-Marxism-Socialism - is the only genuinely functional and fair system to provide for the common welfare, the public commons, and the social needs of a civilized nation.


    My personal favorite expressions of Kenyan-Marxism-Socialism:

    Public libraries.
    National Parks.
    Public universities and colleges.
    Medicare.
    The not-for-profit, community-owned Socialist Green Bay Packers

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    Hello Evmetro,

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    It is natural for humans to have their eyes on somebody else's wealth and paycheck,
    No, it is not. This is what envious people do. Envy is an indication of immaturity, lack of understanding that each is responsible for building their own fortune.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    just as it is natural for dogs to have their eyes on the food that other dogs are eating.
    No, that is not true. It is mere opinion. Well trained dogs behave. Some dogs will not touch food placed on their snout until their human master tells them to. Humans have far more complex lives and societies, including laws and governments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    Humans do not generally like to work,
    Wrong. Must humans enjoy working and contributing to humanity and society with their productivity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    which is why we don't do it unless we are paid.
    This does not explain all the volunteers and humans who work pro bono.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    People will always be plotting ways to get other people's stuff without having to earn it,
    Only the greediest people do this. It is a sign of a deficient mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    and this is why socialism will never die.
    Socialism will endure because it is logical that the members of a collective work together to improve the common condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    Our natural feral condition is that we each own everything in the world, but we eventually learn otherwise.
    Only someone who pretends that he is the only human on the planet would think this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    Socialism and communism are the next natural steps once we realize that none of us can own everything.
    These two terms are not interchangeable, as believed by many on the right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    It feels better for many, especially to bottom feeders, to know that nobody owns anything.
    It helps the greedy rich to justify their selfishness by blaming the poor and denigrating them.

    But seriously, the economic system is not controlled by the poor. Look at the big picture. The people with the most money have the most power and control over how the economic system operates. Funny thing that the economic system ultimately benefits the rich over the poor.
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    I am super-amused by the conservatives who claim that our principles of charity and welfare are not socialism.

    We take some from the rich and give to the poor to ensure that everyone has a minimal standard of life. We don't take so much that the rich are made poor; they are still rich after the forced giving. But since there is so much greed, they would not give enough without the government forcing them to. So we have to use our government to extract some of the wealth of the rich to care for the unfortunate.

    Whatever they want to call it or uncall it, caring for all of society is the right thing to do.

    Humans have always worked together to build a better life for all.

    It's not like we each go it alone in this world.

    If we had that approach we would have very little.

    We need to embrace one for all and all for one.

    Together, we make the world better for all of us.

    Those who have it best need to give a little for the rest.

    That's the way it works.
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