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Thread: Fact Checking Whether ISIS Is 'Defeated'

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    Default Fact Checking Whether ISIS Is 'Defeated'

    The controversy over Pence’s remarks stems from a speech he gave earlier this week in which he said, “The caliphate has crumbled, and ISIS has been defeated” and that the U.S. would now “hand off the fight against ISIS in Syria to our coalition partners.”

    Pence’s speech explicitly noted that “defeat” of ISIS would still entail a continued war against the insurgency.

    Two years ago, CNN touted, “ISIS defeated in Raqqa” as “major military operations” came to an end, despite “pockets of resistance” remaining. Iraq was declared “fully liberated” from ISIS, with the organization “defeated” in the country. ISIS was “in retreat” and “on the run” and U.S. efforts to “defeat the terror group on the battlefield” were seeing “significant … victories.”

    At the same time, CNN took pains to argue that the credit was former President Obama’s, not President Trump’s. As the Syrian conflict has increasingly become Trump’s war, the outlet’s stance seems to have changed, running the headline this week “Fact Check: Has ISIS been defeated?”

    Just what does it mean to “defeat” a terror organization?

    The term “defeat” has specific military meaning. The U.S. Army’s Field Manual 3-09 defines “defeat” as when “an enemy force has temporarily or permanently lost the physical means or the will to fight” and is embodied by “mass surrenders, abandonment of positions, equipment and supplies, or retrograde operations.”

    Such a definition would certainly fit ISIS’s loss of its caliphate and its degradation from a quasi-nation-state back into a traditional federated terror organization. Indeed, the Atlantic Council has previously used the term “territorial defeat” to describe the U.S. focus in Syria and said that such “defeat” would still leave an “insurgency” on the ground.

    The Council on Foreign Relations similarly clarified the “military defeat” of ISIS would still leave an insurgency that could effect and inspire attacks. The Center for Strategic and International Studies offered that “defeating’ ISIL in [Iraq and Syria] is at best likely to defeat its ability to hold any territory” and that “new forms of terrorism will emerge even if ISIL is formally disbanded.” Even the 2003 United States National Strategy for Combating Terrorism clarifies that “victory against terrorism will not occur as a single, defining moment,” but rather a point “where the threat of terrorist attacks does not define our daily lives.”

    Each of these definitions of “defeat” would appear to support Pence’s claim that ISIS had been “defeated” and that post-defeat there would still be a powerful insurgency left to fight.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...ed_139222.html

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    for the dumb stick brains who don't understand ISIS as a state is now an insurgency and defeated as ISIS

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    for the dumb stick brains who don't understand ISIS as a state is now an insurgency and defeated as ISIS
    MOVE!

    THOSE!!

    GOALPOSTS!!!


    I don't know what's more pathetic; the fact that you were wrong about ISIS, or the fact that you feel you have to shift goalposts on an anonymous message board just to save face.
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    Rather than adhering to Pence’s literal statement that “defeat” of ISIS will still leave a vibrant and militant insurgency behind, the seven individuals redefined his use of the word “defeat” to mean the absolute elimination of all traces of ISIS.

    This redefinition of the vice president’s words from their literal form into a straw-man argument is a common, but unfortunate, tactic adopted by fact checkers, which undermines their credibility.

    Putting this all together, few would argue that ISIS no longer poses any threat. The vice president did not actually claim this and was quite explicit that there is still a vibrant insurgency remaining. Fact checkers including PolitiFact and FactCheck.org reached their verdicts by redefining Pence’s words into an argument he did not actually make.

    PolitiFact notes that “in the world of speechmaking and political rhetoric, there is license for hyperbole” and that it does not review statements that are not “rooted in a fact that is verifiable.”
    One could easily argue Pence’s use of the word “defeat” strongly comports with the Army’s military definition and thus was a “True” statement. There is also considerable room to view it as a succinct political sound bite for a complicated story and thus not eligible for fact checking under PoltiFact’s standards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    MOVE!

    THOSE!!

    GOALPOSTS!!!


    I don't know what's more pathetic; the fact that you were wrong about ISIS, or the fact that you feel you have to shift goalposts on an anonymous message board just to save face.
    HAHA here comes the stick brain himself!

    you want to address the military definition of defeat? the fact an insurgency can be lethal but it's entity defeated?

    Of course not..

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    Rather than adhering to Pence’s literal statement that “defeat” of ISIS will still leave a vibrant and militant insurgency behind, the seven individuals redefined his use of the word “defeat” to mean the absolute elimination of all traces of ISIS.

    This redefinition of the vice president’s words from their literal form into a straw-man argument is a common, but unfortunate, tactic adopted by fact checkers, which undermines their credibility.

    Putting this all together, few would argue that ISIS no longer poses any threat. The vice president did not actually claim this and was quite explicit that there is still a vibrant insurgency remaining. Fact checkers including PolitiFact and FactCheck.org reached their verdicts by redefining Pence’s words into an argument he did not actually make.

    PolitiFact notes that “in the world of speechmaking and political rhetoric, there is license for hyperbole” and that it does not review statements that are not “rooted in a fact that is verifiable.”
    One could easily argue Pence’s use of the word “defeat” strongly comports with the Army’s military definition and thus was a “True” statement. There is also considerable room to view it as a succinct political sound bite for a complicated story and thus not eligible for fact checking under PoltiFact’s standards.
    "So, you remember when we said ISIS was defeated, well they are defeated if you accept our alternate definitions of 'ISIS' and 'defeated'."
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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    HAHA here comes the stick brain himself!

    you want to address the military definition of defeat? the fact an insurgency can be lethal but it's entity defeated?

    Of course not..
    What I want to address is why you feel compelled to move goalposts to provide cover for Donald Trump.

    It takes a real fucking moron to do that...someone so stupid, they would be conned by a fat orange reality TV show host.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    "So, you remember when we said ISIS was defeated, well they are defeated if you accept our alternate definitions of 'ISIS' and 'defeated'."
    alternate version??
    Like what WHAT THE US MILITARY CALLS A DEFEAT??

    fucking stick brain

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    HAHA here comes the stick brain himself!

    you want to address the military definition of defeat? the fact an insurgency can be lethal but it's entity defeated?

    Of course not..
    I'm sure the families of the four dead Americans from Tuesday are glad to hear ISIS has been defeated*.

    (*defeated doesn't mean defeated, in this sense)
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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    alternate version??
    Like what WHAT THE US MILITARY CALLS A DEFEAT??
    fucking stick brain
    I'm sure the families of the two soldiers killed in an ISIS attack this past Tuesday are happy to know ISIS has been defeated*.

    (*Defeated doesn't mean defeated in this sense, or any other sense)
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    What I want to address is why you feel compelled to move goalposts to provide cover for Donald Trump.

    It takes a real fucking moron to do that...someone so stupid, they would be conned by a fat orange reality TV show host.
    bla h blah blah yada yaa yada.spin spin spin. your dumb azz stick brain STILL won't address the terms as
    USED BY THE MILITARY.

    I give you credit for being tenaciously dumb however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    I'm sure the families of the two soldiers killed in an ISIS attack this past Tuesday are happy to know ISIS has been defeated*.

    (*Defeated doesn't mean defeated in this sense, or any other sense)
    nope nope nope. that was a suicide bomber.. they are all over the place.

    you wanna address the OP? the military definition? OH NO NOT THAT!!

    you are squishy l but you can't get way from military definitions

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    HA HA HA HA HA.. where's your lifeboat??

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    for the dumb stick brains who don't understand ISIS as a state is now an insurgency and defeated as ISIS
    You have to understand the mentally retarded state most liberals find themselves in. It has reduced them to pathological lying, delusional ranting and massive hypocrisy.
    "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."


    A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
    Author: Booker T. Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Unless you just can't stand the idea of "ni**ers" teaching white kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Address the topic, not other posters.

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    The Council on Foreign Relations similarly clarified the “military defeat” of ISIS would still leave an insurgency that could effect and inspire attacks.

    The Center for Strategic and International Studies offered that “defeating’ ISIL in [Iraq and Syria] is at best likely to defeat its ability to hold any territory” and that “new forms of terrorism will emerge even if ISIL is formally disbanded.”

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