CharacterAssassin (01-18-2019), ThatOwlWoman (01-18-2019)
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I remain ambiguous about the legacy of Julius Caesar. I have heard more than a few academics claim Caesar is the most important and consequential person after Jesus of Nazareth to the arc of western history.
I can see how the establishment of the Empire and the down fall of the Republic, for whatever downsides it had, basically set western civilization on its trajectory for the next two millennium.
As for his strategic military abilities, it is interesting for you to note how much luck was involved. The conquest of Gaul can certainly be attributed as one of the most consequential events of Roman history. But history is always written by the victors, eh? Caesar was undoubtedly decisive and bold, but through the murky rear view of 2,000 years we can never be entirely certain of how much sheer blind luck and good fortune were involved.
CharacterAssassin (01-18-2019), ThatOwlWoman (01-18-2019)
I believe as the decades pass, Reagan's legacy is being tarnished as a more realistic view on his tenure occurs, and the mythology is deconstructed.
I also think Jimmy Carter's legacy is looking incrementally better in hindsight.
Reagan ran a criminal administration, that lied to congress, illegally funded a civil war, and covertly gave high tech American weapons to the Iranian mullahs.
That is not even mentioning the damage Reagan did to the economy and the American middle class through union busting and trickedown economic schemes.
You know one thing positive I can about Bedtime for Bonzo? He seemed to realize that Gorbechev was a different kind of Soviet leader, and Reagan seemed to have a genuine interest in working with Gorby to wind down the nuclear arms race. And I give him credit for that because I can remember most the rightwing wanted to continue the arms race, and they were mad at Reagan from compromising with Gorby.
CharacterAssassin (01-18-2019)
Well that's just it. Caesar documented his accomplishments in commentaries, which were just as much political propaganda as they were dispatches from the war front. They have survived down through history to this day and have contributed greatly to his historical impact and legacy where as some of his contemporaries who's accomplishments were as significiant, take Sulla for example. His commentaries and autobiography did not survive antiquity and much of what we know about Sulla comes from secondary sources where as we have a great deal of primary source material on Caesar....who wrote most of it. LOL
You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!
Cypress (01-18-2019)
Which emphasized my point. Reagan was better at diplomacy than you are giving him credit for.
I mean I agree on a lot of things. Much of what I hear people espouse about Carter and Reagan cause, as an old fucker, I remember their administrations and the events that led up to them and during them. There is much Carter deserves criticism for, his negativity, his inability to work with Congress, his tendency to micro-manage but there are things that he did quite well. Like righting the Ship of State after the unmittigated catastrophe that was the Nixon administration.
Many of the problems that faced this nation during Carter's administration were a direct result of the cluster fuck Nixon created. When I hear young Republicans spout the Party catechism about Carter I usually chuckle and take glee in pointing out that almost everything they criticize Carter for was, factually, attributable to Nixon. Carter was the one who had to deal with the fall out. And for the most part he did so capably. His hiring Paul Voelker to head the Fed was an excellent move but it cost him dearly politically speaking.
Last edited by Mott the Hoople; 01-18-2019 at 12:11 PM.
You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!
ThatOwlWoman (01-18-2019)
"It [the draft] is duty rather than slavery. I part with the author on the caviler idea that individual freedom (whatever that may be to the person) leads to nirvana, anyone older that 12 knows that is BS."
-(Midcan5)
"Allow me to masturbate my patriotism furiously and publicly at this opportunity."
-(Ib1yysguy)
"There is no 'equal opportunity' today unless the government makes it so."
-(apple0154 )
"abortion is not killing Its birth control"
-(Desh)
"It [the draft] is duty rather than slavery. I part with the author on the caviler idea that individual freedom (whatever that may be to the person) leads to nirvana, anyone older that 12 knows that is BS."
-(Midcan5)
"Allow me to masturbate my patriotism furiously and publicly at this opportunity."
-(Ib1yysguy)
"There is no 'equal opportunity' today unless the government makes it so."
-(apple0154 )
"abortion is not killing Its birth control"
-(Desh)
Mott the Hoople (01-18-2019)
Well in the end Caesar was assisinated and Octavian did die an old man of natural causes. A rare form of death for a Roman Emperor. It also cast shade on Caesars criticism that Sulla didn’t know his political ABC’s. As Sulla accomplished about as much as Caesar and died an old man of natural causes too. Maybe Sulla was a tad more skilled than Caesar gave him credit for.
You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!
Minister of Truth (01-18-2019)
Phantasmal (01-18-2019)
Oh yeah, Goldwater. When he ran for president I was still a kid, yet aware of and interested in politics, filtered of course through a child's eye. I have a rather vivid memory of an anti-Goldwater TV commercial that had a video of an atomic bomb explosion and saying something about if he was elected that was our future. It wasn't until later -- much later -- that I realized that he actually was a man of great good sense even if I did not agree with his politics. This view is esp. poignant now, given the current state of the GOP and its leader.
Some selected Goldwater quotes:
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." (1994)
"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operations of the international moneylenders... the accounts of the Federal Reserve have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and... manipulates the credit of the United States " (1979)
"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. " (1964)
"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight." (1993)
"I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass. " (1991)
Source: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater
Mr. Goldwater wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell of being elected under the (R) umbrella today... that's how far they've moved to the fascist dark side.
Cypress (01-18-2019)
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