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Thread: Germany Wobbles on Russian Gas Pipeline as Trump Pressure Starts to Bite

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Why are you so hung up about the routing, you just seem to miss the point entirely. Both Trump and Obama agree that it's a strategic issue.
    so you want to eliminate Nordstream2?
    Do you think the US should compensate Germany for the extra costs incurred by shipping US or Qatar or whomever
    to German ports by LNG carrier ships? Instead of a pipeline from Russia?

    And actually i think it's important NOT to collapse Russian exports. I don't want to see a starving Russia
    One of these days when Russiaphobia is over we're gonna be concerned about getting Russia back away from China.

    Plus from a supply side the nat gas is not at risk. Russia badly needs the cash

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    Trump is trying to kill globalization in other ways.

    Kevin Kester is used to taking the long view—his family has raised cattle on the land his Bear Valley Ranch occupies in California since 1867. But he also can see what looms in the not-too-distant future across the Pacific Ocean.

    The 11-country trade deal once known as the Trans-Pacific Partnership has started to come into force, giving his Australian competitors what stands in coming years to be an increasingly valuable leg up in Japan, the U.S.’s most lucrative export market for beef. Thanks to President Trump’s withdrawal from the TPP—one of his first acts in office—American ranchers won’t get any of the benefits of the reduced tariffs for beef and other farm products U.S. negotiators spent years haggling over with Japan, the pact’s biggest remaining economy.

    Kester isn’t just another bemused bystander to American politics. As the current volunteer president of the powerful National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, he serves on committees that advise Trump and his cabinet on agricultural policy and trade.

    continued

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...p?srnd=premium
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    so you want to eliminate Nordstream2?
    Do you think the US should compensate Germany for the extra costs incurred by shipping US or Qatar or whomever
    to German ports by LNG carrier ships? Instead of a pipeline from Russia?

    And actually i think it's important NOT to collapse Russian exports. I don't want to see a starving Russia
    One of these days when Russiaphobia is over we're gonna be concerned about getting Russia back away from China.

    Plus from a supply side the nat gas is not at risk. Russia badly needs the cash
    Asia and the Europeans are doubling down on cooperation ...
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    so you want to eliminate Nordstream2?
    Do you think the US should compensate Germany for the extra costs incurred by shipping US or Qatar or whomever
    to German ports by LNG carrier ships? Instead of a pipeline from Russia?

    And actually i think it's important NOT to collapse Russian exports. I don't want to see a starving Russia
    One of these days when Russiaphobia is over we're gonna be concerned about getting Russia back away from China.

    Plus from a supply side the nat gas is not at risk. Russia badly needs the cash
    If the Germans weren't so in thrall to the useless Greens they would start fracking domestically like we are doing in England. We ship gas from both the US and Qatar as well as from Norwegian and Dutch pipelines under the North Sea. So not really sure what your point is, my point is simple enough, the name of the game is diversification and security. Trump and Obama didn't agree on much, but they agreed on that.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/fracking-europe
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 01-18-2019 at 02:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Trump is trying to kill globalization in other ways.

    Kevin Kester is used to taking the long view—his family has raised cattle on the land his Bear Valley Ranch occupies in California since 1867. But he also can see what looms in the not-too-distant future across the Pacific Ocean.

    The 11-country trade deal once known as the Trans-Pacific Partnership has started to come into force, giving his Australian competitors what stands in coming years to be an increasingly valuable leg up in Japan, the U.S.’s most lucrative export market for beef. Thanks to President Trump’s withdrawal from the TPP—one of his first acts in office—American ranchers won’t get any of the benefits of the reduced tariffs for beef and other farm products U.S. negotiators spent years haggling over with Japan, the pact’s biggest remaining economy.

    Kester isn’t just another bemused bystander to American politics. As the current volunteer president of the powerful National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, he serves on committees that advise Trump and his cabinet on agricultural policy and trade.

    continued

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...p?srnd=premium
    Here she again, flying off at a tangent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    If the Germans weren't so in thrall to the useless Greens they would start fracking domestically!! We ship gas from both the US and Qatar as well as from Norwegian and Dutch pipelines under the North Sea. So not really sure what your point is, my point is simple enough, the name of the game is diversification.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/fracking-europe
    diversify and expand I assume are the goals.
    But what's the alternative to Nordstream2?. German fraking isn't going to happen.
    More non-Russian pipelines? Ships? Or a new cheap gas Russian pipeline?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Asia and the Europeans are doubling down on cooperation ...
    More bloviating irrelevancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    diversify and expand I assume are the goals.
    But what's the alternative to Nordstream2?. German fraking isn't going to happen.
    More non-Russian pipelines? Ships? Or a new cheap gas Russian pipeline?
    They can have Norwegian and Dutch pipelines plus cheap US and Qatar gas. There are also alternatives like Algeria, Nigeria, Oman, Trinidad and Tobago, Australia and Indonesia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    They can have Norwegian and Dutch pipelines plus cheap US and Qatar gas. There are also alternatives like Algeria, Nigeria, Oman, Trinidad and Tobago, Australia and Indonesia.
    Nordtream2 is so much cheaper and easier. They have the facilities ready

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    They can have Norwegian and Dutch pipelines plus cheap US and Qatar gas. There are also alternatives like Algeria, Nigeria, Oman, Trinidad and Tobago, Australia and Indonesia.
    They're building pipelines from Tobago and Indonesia to Germany?
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    They're building pipelines from Tobago and Indonesia to Germany?
    Yes, didn't anybody tell you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    Nordtream2 is so much cheaper and easier. They have the facilities ready
    You need to read this, there is much opposition to it both in Germany and Eastern Europe.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekea...dy-underwater/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    You need to read this, there is much opposition to it both in Germany and Eastern Europe.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekea...dy-underwater/
    Eastern Europeans want transit fees...
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    You need to read this, there is much opposition to it both in Germany and Eastern Europe.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekea...dy-underwater/
    good article..
    opposition from east Europe current transit countries and Poland opposition and the old USA Russiaphobia at work.

    I'm sorry I just can't get upset at Russia selling LNG to Germany

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    good article..
    opposition from east Europe current transit countries and Poland opposition and the old USA Russiaphobia at work.

    I'm sorry I just can't get upset at Russia selling LNG to Germany
    They are also buying gas from Algeria and Brent..

    Is Germany a ‘captive’ of Russia?
    Not really.

    Germans view Russia more favorably than Americans do. And United States governments have been complaining about Germany’s dependence on Russian gas for years, even if Mr. Trump has done so more bluntly. But Germany has endorsed tough sanctions on Russia even when they looked likely to hurt German business, and German companies have gone along.

    Last year, the German manufacturer Siemens stopped delivery of power plant turbines to a Russian partner when it emerged that it was transporting them into the disputed territory of Crimea.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/w...ussia-gas.html

    In examining similar claims last year, The Times showed that Mr. Trump was conflating two things: NATO’s budget covering common civilian and military costs and the goal for each member to spend at least 2 percent of their gross domestic product on their militaries by 2024.

    To date, four members — the United States, Poland, the United Kingdom and Estonia — have reached that goal. But none of the NATO allies are technically in arrears.
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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