The Godless left showing their tolerance!

[Phantasmal]

I know LOTS of Jews...and I have never encountered a one who is grappling with the question of "Who is a Jew?"

EVERY ONE OF THEM SAYS, "The child of a Jewish woman is a Jew."

It’s because it has been that way since 70 CE the time the Gospels were being written.

[kudzu]

I know LOTS of Jews...and I have never encountered a one who is grappling with the question of "Who is a Jew?"

EVERY ONE OF THEM SAYS, "The child of a Jewish woman is a Jew."

Ask them if that has always been the case.. Because if that's true, King Solomon was NOT a Jew.

[kudzu]

Who is a Jew?

Although the Hebrew Bible defines Jewish identity in patrilineal terms (determined by the identity of the father) the Mishnah states that the offspring of a Jewish mother and a non-Jewish father is recognized as a Jew, while the offspring of a non-Jewish mother and a Jewish father is considered a non-Jew. This talmudic position became normative in Jewish law.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.myj...l-descent/amp/

The majority view in Karaite Judaism is that Jewish identity can only be transmitted by patrilineal descent They argue that only patrilineal descent can transmit Jewish identity on the grounds that all descent in the Torah went according to the male line. Jewish Tradition Wikipedia

[FONT="]Historically, since the Rabbinic period (post 70 CE), Jewish status was passed down by the mother. This is known as matrilineality. A child of a Jewish mother is Jewish, even if the father is not. Prior to this period, the Bible recognized patrilineal descent, whereby one’s Jewish status was determined by one’s father.

[FONT="]In 1983, the organized Reform Jewish Movement adopted the principal of patrilineal descent. This is a bit of a misnomer. Reform Judaism considers a child of an interfaith couple to be Jewish if one parent is Jewish and the child is raised as a Jew and receives a Jewish education and celebrates appropriate life cycle events, such as receiving a Hebrew name and becoming bar or bat mitzvah. This also assumes that the child is being raised exclusively as a Jew and not practicing another religion.
[/FONT]https://reformjudaism.org/ask-rabbi-...lineal-descent

[/FONT]

Thanks.. Today the pat answer is if the mother is Jewish the children are born Jews, but that was NOT always the case. Bathsheba was not a Jewess nor was Ruth the Grandmother of Jesse and great Grandmother of King David.

[Phantasmal]

Ask them if that has always been the case.. Because if that's true, King Solomon was NOT a Jew.

Reformed Jews use patralineal descent. It really does depend on which sect of Judaism you practice. It’s not one size fits all.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Frank,

No, I do not think you are the devil.

The descriptor "atheist" means so many things to so many different people...I just want to know what YOU meant when you used it as a descriptor.

The word most assuredly does not speak for itself, Poli.

I DO NOT "BELIEVE" (which is to say, blindly guess) THAT THERE IS A GOD.

I am not an atheist.

I ALSO DO NOT "BELIEVE" (blindly guess) there are no gods.

I also am not a theist.

Some people who use the descriptor "atheist"...in fact ASSERT THAT THERE ARE NO GODS.

So the word does not speak for itself.

That's interesting.

The whole creator/overseer thing is simply not plausible to me.

Evolution is fact. It is clear that the links between animals and humans are overwhelming. We evolved from lower life forms. Life forms evolve in response to their surroundings. That cannot be plausibly denied. The physical evidence of this is overwhelming. That makes the story of creation false, and thus the entire Bible is to be doubted and not taken as fact (in my view.)

You are what I would call an agnostic. I thought of myself that way for a long time.

I lean that way, but only a minute bit. I have seen so little to support that there is any sort of sentient guidance to the cosmos, that I am 99.9% convinced there is none. But it can't be proved, so I leave room for doubt. The tiniest bit of it. For all essential purposes I am convinced there is no creator/overseer being or beings.

Although it was very interesting reading Van Daniken's 'Chariots Of The Gods.'

[Frank Apisa]

It’s because it has been that way since 70 CE the time the Gospels were being written.

Oh...okay.

I was talking about today. Kudzu's comment seemed to be directed toward today. My response was worded to denote I was talking about today.

TODAY.

And...everything I have read or heard from Jews indicates that anyone born of a Jewish mother is a Jew. I have a Jewish nephew. His mother was a Jew...and he is a Jew. Period.

[Frank Apisa]

Ask them if that has always been the case.. Because if that's true, King Solomon was NOT a Jew.

I do not give a fuck if it always has been the case or not.

Your comment...and my response were not about ancient history...or about mythology, Kudzu.

The comment you made that I took issue with was, "All three Abrahamic religions are about patriarchy."

My response was, "I don't think so, Kudzu. For Jews...and child of a Jewish MOTHER is a Jew. That is what defines Jews."

Obviously we are both talking about now. Your comment is in the PRESENT TENSE...and so are mine.

[kudzu]

I do not give a fuck if it always has been the case or not.

Your comment...and my response were not about ancient history...or about mythology, Kudzu.

The comment you made that I took issue with was, "All three Abrahamic religions are about patriarchy."

My response was, "I don't think so, Kudzu. For Jews...and child of a Jewish MOTHER is a Jew. That is what defines Jews."

Obviously we are both talking about now. Your comment is in the PRESENT TENSE...and so are mine.

That is the way Jews have believed since Ezra 10.. If you were correct, Solomon and David would NOT have been Jews.

[Frank Apisa]

Hello Frank,



That's interesting.

The whole creator/overseer thing is simply not plausible to me.

Okay.

Evolution is fact. It is clear that the links between animals and humans are overwhelming. We evolved from lower life forms. Life forms evolve in response to their surroundings. That cannot be plausibly denied. The physical evidence of this is overwhelming. That makes the story of creation false, and thus the entire Bible is to be doubted and not taken as fact (in my view.)

I did not bring "the Bible" into this...and I really wish it hadn't been...but...

If the discussion is about whether any gods exist or not..."the Bible" has but one of the zillions of possibilities of gods.

That is narrowing it down way too much.

As far as the Bible is concerned, here is my take (for the third time this week) taken from a reply I gave to someone condemning homosexuality:

AS FOR THE BIBLE: My personal opinion is that the best guess that can be made about the Bible is that it is a self-serving history of the early Hebrew people interspersed with a fanciful religious mythology. My opinion is that the best guess that can be made about the religious aspects of the Bible is that the people writing the material—the people inventing the god—put their prejudices into the mouth of the god they invented. Almost all of the anger, hatred, and prejudice against homosexuals today in our country has its genesis in the biblical mythology—and has absolutely no place in the hearts and minds of people supposedly as intelligent as we. It is my opinion that the unwarranted prejudice against homosexuals should end not because people are able to justify disregarding the more obviously silly ravings of what almost certainly is a mythical god…but because we, as an intelligent and basically fair species, should see such prejudice for the ignorance it is.

You are what I would call an agnostic. I thought of myself that way for a long time.

I used to call myself an agnostic...but then the conversations became about what is meant by "agnostic."

Now I just describe my position rather than use a descriptor:

I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.

I lean that way, but only a minute bit. I have seen so little to support that there is any sort of sentient guidance to the cosmos, that I am 99.9% convinced there is none. But it can't be proved, so I leave room for doubt. The tiniest bit of it. For all essential purposes I am convinced there is no creator/overseer being or beings.

You are free to do that.

My position is:

It is not possible to establish that at least one god exists using logic, reason, science, or math.

It is not possible to establish that it is more likely that at least one god exists than that no gods exist using logic, reason, science, or math.

It is not possible to establish that no gods exist using logic, reason, science, or math.

It is not possible to establish that it is more likely that no gods exist than that at least one god exists using logic, reason, science, or math.

Although it was very interesting reading Van Daniken's 'Chariots Of The Gods.'

Never read it.

[Old Trapper]

I think you are talking about a different subject.. Jewish men often had foreign wives up to Ezra and their children were Jewish...

You may be on a different topic, me not so much. Point was who is a Jew. Orthodox Jews, and the Torah, have determined the genealogy to be through the woman since the time of Abraham from whom all Jews count their inheritance. Has nothing to do with Ezra.

[Frank Apisa]

That is the way Jews have believed since Ezra 10.. If you were correct, Solomon and David would NOT have been Jews.

Go fuck yourself, Kudzu.

Do a good job of it. You need it!

[kudzu]

You may be on a different topic, me not so much. Point was who is a Jew. Orthodox Jews, and the Torah, have determined the genealogy to be through the woman since the time of Abraham from whom all Jews count their inheritance. Has nothing to do with Ezra.

If you were correct, neither David nor Solomon would have been Jews.

[Adolf_Twitler]

but that's exactly what you did, isn't it?........

No! I couldn't give a shit about you personally!

[Old Trapper]

If you were correct, neither David nor Solomon would have been Jews.

You really are deeply involved in your false religion. Now you are saying Matthew, and Luke, were both liars.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Frank,

Thanks for sharing your views on religion. Makes sense to me.

Never read it. [Chariots Of The Gods]

It is an examination of artifacts drawings and structures from antiquity which suggests humans have been visited in the past by beings from another world. There are cave drawings of what look like a man with a space helmet. There are massive signs dug/etched into the landscape which are really only visible from great altitude, suggesting markers for flying visitors to identify an approach. These markings/etchings/diggings were done long before humans learned to fly. These phenomena suggest that Earth has been visited in the past by beings from another world. The author, Van Daniken, muses that human religions may have been influenced by such visits, thought of these visitors as gods (which is inherently logical, given their level of technology) and that may have led to a belief that the gods are up above.