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Thread: Trump: I could declare a national emergency to get border wall

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    You are free to pretend that, or you can engage in an educated discussion of the issue.
    And to what end, except to watch you once again do nothing more then try to two step around the FACTS, like you did and are doing with Damo.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    And to what end, except to watch you once again do nothing more then try to two step around the FACTS, like you did and are doing with Damo.
    Damocles was flat out wrong.
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    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by volsrock View Post
    https://nypost.com/2019/01/04/trump-...t-border-wall/


    Heads are exploding everywhere in Washington today. Good times.
    It's funny to me that you basically light your own hair on fire and dance around naked here every day and you think it is "good times"

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    No he can't but let's see him try ... it's not like the Hole he's already dug can't use some more dirt.
    ONE-N-DONE, YOU GOT PLAYED; Time To Play-On
    Remember ... ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES ... So STFU Bitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Getin the ring View Post
    slowly but surely the entire border will have a barrier nearly impossible to breech, and a lot of that will be a wall.

    take your medicine quickly, or the slow death that Queen Nancy is asking you to submit to.
    Nope. 90 percent of illegals and drugs come in through the existing entry points by the truckload. You want those closed too, Don't you? Otherwise, you are really not interested in stopping drugs and illegals, but protecting Daffy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Damocles was flat out wrong.
    Only according to you and you were / are in error.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Nope. 90 percent of illegals and drugs come in through the existing entry points by the truckload. You want those closed too, Don't you? Otherwise, you are really not interested in stopping drugs and illegals, but protecting Daffy.
    I keep telling you, young Padawan, that you must be patient and instead of looking for instant gratification, you should consider one solution (to one problem) and then address the next one in time.

    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


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    Congress has given the president the authority to declare an emergency and thus suspend any law.

    That does not give him the authority to build a wall.
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    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Since you refuse to identify any particular language that you claim gives the President "Emergency Powers", I will use some portions of your link.

    First I will point out that you link is simply someone's article and opinion and that the FACTS presented in your link do not support your claim, only the opinion.

    The First Paragraph:

    "The President of the United States possesses certain powers to act in emergency situations." (opinion) "Though such “emergency power” is not specifically expressed in the Constitution," (FACT) the Executive Branch is designed to be able to act quickly in times of war or national emergency. Because emergency power is not specifically stated in the Constitution," (FACT) its scope is somewhat limited, typically extending only to situations that compromise or threaten the safety or well-being of the public." (OPINION) "To explore this concept, consider the following emergency power definition."


    You see, Damocles has used an age old trick of combining fact with opinion to try to trick the reader into believing the opinion is fact. A true strict constructionist would see that those who have the opinion that the president has special "emergency powers" if he declares an emergency, are STRETCHING the Constitution beyond where the founders intended. Though history despots have used a hyped emergency to claim "emergency powers" and anoint themselves King. The founders knew this and protected us from that by refusing to grant the President of the United States the Constitutional power to grant himself additional authority by declaring an emergency.

    I find it funny that, out of love for President Rump, people who consider themselves Strict Constructionists are willing to undermine this philosophy to extend this ideology to the despot Don Trump.

    Yes, presidents have usurped "emergency powers" in the past, to do patiently unconstitutional things, like when Roosevelt imprisoned Asian Americans in prison camps. Promoting the idea that the President has this authority is dangerous and WRONG.

    He argues that because Congress passed a bill limiting "emergency powers" is evidence that these powers exist, that is putting the cart before the horse. Congress can limit my power to cut myself a huge slice of cheese from the moon, it does not change that I never had that power in the first place.

    Now, say I am wrong, for political reasons all you want, I am not wrong here.

    The FACT remains that DAMOCLES cannot point to any portion of the CONSTITUTION that grants these mythical powers to the President. This was the intent of the founders for a very specific reason. To pretend otherwise is simply wrong.
    But you ignore the first sentence. Which begins with a direct and opposite statement from your original assertion that the President has no emergency powers. The FACT (stress is imitative) remains, Jarod, that the President does indeed have emergency powers. You didn't say, "in the constitution" you said, "There is no such thing as emergency powers of the president." (I've put the quote below so you can find it as you've demonstrated an inability to read, or, in this case, to tell the truth of what you stated.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    There is no such thing as emergency powers of the president.
    I then proceeded to tell you how it was used in the past, gave you SCOTUS rulings on it, and noted what specific legislation, when it was passed, why it was passed, and that now defines those powers, their limitations, and the President's ability to use them. I did that to tell you that this blanket statement in this specific quote was flat wrong.
    Last edited by Damocles; 01-07-2019 at 06:29 PM.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
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    - -- The Buddha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Getin the ring View Post
    Trump can do just about anything he wants to do on the issue of National Security, and certainly can divert monies to secure our borders without asking anyone if it is ok.

    It's absurd to assert otherwise
    Aren't you the nut bag who keeps claiming Mexico already paid for the wall four times over?

    If that's the case trump needs to stop yapping and start building.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Where does the Constitution give him that power?

    Or do Republicans not care about that anymore?
    Since when have you ever?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    But you ignore the first sentence. Which begins with a direct and opposite statement from your original assertion that the President has no emergency powers. The FACT (stress is imitative) remains, Jarod, that the President does indeed have emergency powers. You didn't say, "in the constitution" you said, "There is no such thing as emergency powers of the president." (I've put the quote below so you can find it as you've demonstrated an inability to read, or, in this case, to tell the truth of what you stated.)



    I then proceeded to tell you how it was used in the past, gave you SCOTUS rulings on it, and noted what specific legislation, when it was passed, why it was passed, and that now defines those powers, their limitations, and the President's ability to use them. I did that to tell you that this blanket statement in this specific quote was flat wrong.
    In that sense, you were right and I was wrong. My blanket statement was incorrect.

    But it is not what people are claiming, their is no provision that gives the President the absolute power to do anything other than take some of Congresses rights, and only because Congress allows it. If challenged at the S.Ct. I still think their is a very good chance they would declare the entire Act Unconstitutional. I am not sure its constitutional for Congress to cede its rights to the President. So, in this way of looking at it, we don't really know if the President has that power, it has not been reviewed by the Court.

    When emergency powers were used by Roosevelt and Lincoln there was no such thing, and it was an unconstitutional act.
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    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    But you ignore the first sentence. Which begins with a direct and opposite statement from your original assertion that the President has no emergency powers. The FACT (stress is imitative) remains, Jarod, that the President does indeed have emergency powers. You didn't say, "in the constitution" you said, "There is no such thing as emergency powers of the president." (I've put the quote below so you can find it as you've demonstrated an inability to read, or, in this case, to tell the truth of what you stated.)



    I then proceeded to tell you how it was used in the past, gave you SCOTUS rulings on it, and noted what specific legislation, when it was passed, why it was passed, and that now defines those powers, their limitations, and the President's ability to use them. I did that to tell you that this blanket statement in this specific quote was flat wrong.
    I did not ignore the first sentence, I pointed out that it is OPINION.,
    4,487

    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    In that sense, you were right and I was wrong. My blanket statement was incorrect.
    Which is all I have been saying.

    But it is not what people are claiming, their is no provision that gives the President the absolute power to do anything other than take some of Congresses rights, and only because Congress allows it. If challenged at the S.Ct. I still think their is a very good chance they would declare the entire Act Unconstitutional. I am not sure its constitutional for Congress to cede its rights to the President. So, in this way of looking at it, we don't really know if the President has that power, it has not been reviewed by the Court.
    But it was what I was saying.

    When emergency powers were used by Roosevelt and Lincoln there was no such thing, and it was an unconstitutional act.
    We can agree, mostly, but it was used, and when SCOTUS ruled against Lincoln he ignored them. When the SCOTUS did recognize such a thing, what the SCOTUS recognized is that some function of government must be able to act in an emergency, and that the only one designed to so such a thing was the Executive. They believed it was limited and that Congress was its check. As I said, read the rulings, they are interesting.

    I noted later that I liked the National Emergency Powers Act and why. Defining and limiting what such powers entail is a good thing, as well as setting an expiration date if action isn't taken to renew such things so things like folks being unable to own gold would end... and in the end sanity would prevail.

    It's never been my intention to say that Trump can use this to build a wall, because I think that if he tried it would fail miserably. Nor do I think it would because he knows that if he tries it would fail, miserably. It has always been my intention to say that they exist, especially so now with the Act, and told you that the blanket statement was factually incorrect.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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