Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 139

Thread: An Idea for Immigration

  1. #16 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74,838
    Thanks
    15,266
    Thanked 14,432 Times in 12,044 Posts
    Groans
    18,546
    Groaned 1,699 Times in 1,647 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    To get it out of the way, some will be tempted to reply "tl;dr" and move on. Consider it done and save yourself the time. But for those willing to put in some time and thought, here's an idea for addressing our real immigration issues.

    First, let's clear away the manufactured panic over illegal immigration. You may not know it from watching Fox News, but there's no actual border crisis. Illegal immigration in this country has fallen greatly from its peak back in the Clinton years. And, anecdotes of individual criminal acts by illegal immigrants notwithstanding, illegal immigrants tend to be less violent, on average, than native-born Americans, so those immigrants are actually making the US safer.

    It goes beyond that. We desperately need a large increase in immigrants in this country, due to the imminent explosion of a demographic time bomb. The short-form briefing is this: with Baby Boomers heading into retirement, we're poised for a couple lost economic decades, similar to, but worse than, what Japan suffered through, because we simply have too few younger workers. Immigrants tend to come from the exact age groups that we need to bolster to balance our demographic mix, so boosting immigration will make us far better off in the decades to come. The real immigration crisis is a crisis of immigration falling exactly when we need it to surge.

    If that short form isn't clear or convincing, watch this video, which isn't actually about immigration, but gets into a fair amount of economic detail about the nature of the demographic timebomb we're facing. It's harrowing:



    Nonetheless, I think we can all agree that solving this problem with legal immigration would be better than solving it with illegal immigration, and that bringing in motivated workers who will assimilate beats the alternative. So, here's the idea:

    Fund a giant university just south of the border -- with a long-term lease for the land from the Mexican government. Make it big enough to house 1,000,000 people, at least (less than twice the size of the state university system of New York, and half the size of the California Community Colleges system, to put it in perspective.) The idea would be to provide no-cost education to people who want to come to the US.

    Enrollees would be given adequate, no-frills food and housing for themselves and their dependent children. In exchange, they'd need to stick with a particular program. First, children and adults would all take intensive English-language education. The children would also get grade-level-appropriate general instruction, while the adults would take vocational instruction appropriate for their backgrounds and skills and the needs of the US job market, plus some civics and social training to prepare them for life in the US. In addition, the adults would be required to work 20 hours per week on tasks that decrease the operating cost of the university (doing low-level maintenance and admin work, and helping to grow and prepare the food).

    The adults would graduate with a certificate once they'd achieved (a) working-level fluency in English, (b) demonstrated skill at something that will make them employable at a living wage in the US, and (c) basic knowledge of US civics/culture/history, equivalent to an easier version of the citizenship test. The certificate would come with a permanent work visa (so long as they avoided any serious legal trouble), and residency visas for their dependent children. Thus, graduation would signify to US employers that they're legally able to work, and have certain basic skills.

    For some, graduation could be achieved almost immediately, if they've already got English skills, a decent education, and some practical skills. They'd only stay long enough to pass background checks and take their tests, and then they'd be on to the US. For others, it might take several years, like a real university. But, on average, I'm picturing about two years, such that the system would churn out 500,000 new legal residents per year (about 300k illegal border crossers are apprehended per year, to put it in perspective).

    This would have a lot of advantages. First, it would give us somewhere to safely house refugees and their families pending hearings, in an academic, rather than penal system. Two, it would greatly decrease illegal immigration, by filling up the jobs that are drawing illegal workers with documented ones. Third, it would create an immigrant community that is more productive, employable, and prepped to integrate. Fourth, it would serve as a vetting period, to weed out problem immigrants. Fifth, it would fast-track the most motivated immigrants.

    How much would it cost? Tough to say, but here's a back-of-the-envelope calculation. In Mexico, the monthly costs for basic needs for a couple with 2 children is about $320 (converted from pesos):

    http://bajainsider.com/article/mexic...-do-they-do-it

    In theory you could go much cheaper with the communal living and the people contributing to their own support, but just to be safe we'll go the other way and round that up to $1,000 per person, per year. Public universities cost between $378 and $818 per year in Mexico, but let's round up the high end of that, too, to be safe, to $1,000 per year for the education I'm talking about. So, $2,000 per person, per year, total. Multiply by 1 million people, and you get $2 billion in annual cost.

    The Trump wall, by comparison, has been estimated to cost as much as $70 billion, followed by $150 million per year to maintain.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/18/u...ost-trump.html

    So, a thirty-year cost for each would be as much as $74.5 billion for Trump's wall, or $60 billion for my idea. Trump's wall would likely prove entirely useless, but even if it succeeded, what it would succeed in doing is making the detonation of our demographic time bomb vastly more painful than it needs to be. My idea, by comparison, would help to defuse that time bomb, while benefiting America with many millions of graduates who will become well-integrated and productive members of society.
    And yet, you said:

    "If we end all immigration..."

    when no one said to end all immigration; because what was said, to end it until we solve our own problems.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


  2. The Following User Says Thank You to USFREEDOM911 For This Post:

    Truth Detector (01-07-2019)

  3. #17 | Top
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,543
    Thanks
    441
    Thanked 1,874 Times in 1,170 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 202 Times in 195 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    And yet, you said:

    "If we end all immigration..."
    As a reminder, my top post wasn't about ending all immigration. You responded by calling for us to "end all immigration." I explained why that would be a bad idea. Then you had a little meltdown about me supposedly wanting to speak of immigration and not illegal immigration.... when I was merely responding to your policy proposal as you positioned it. You seem to have lost track of the debate.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Oneuli For This Post:

    Phantasmal (01-07-2019), rjhenn (01-07-2019)

  5. #18 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    42,254
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 22,245 Times in 13,970 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 3,056 Times in 2,851 Posts

    Default

    Interesting, and the economic arguement makes sense, but it would never pass the right's demagogues attacks making it realistically impossible

    However, why place the school in Mexico rather than on the American side of the border? You can process, train, and Americanize immigrants as they enter the country rather than containing them in Mexico?

  6. #19 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74,838
    Thanks
    15,266
    Thanked 14,432 Times in 12,044 Posts
    Groans
    18,546
    Groaned 1,699 Times in 1,647 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    As a reminder, my top post wasn't about ending all immigration. You responded by calling for us to "end all immigration." I explained why that would be a bad idea. Then you had a little meltdown about me supposedly wanting to speak of immigration and not illegal immigration.... when I was merely responding to your policy proposal as you positioned it. You seem to have lost track of the debate.
    You keep leaving off the rest!!

    Is that because you aren't able to multi-task and can only address what you think was said??
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


  7. The Following User Says Thank You to USFREEDOM911 For This Post:

    Truth Detector (01-07-2019)

  8. #20 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    135,319
    Thanks
    13,309
    Thanked 40,977 Times in 32,292 Posts
    Groans
    3,664
    Groaned 2,869 Times in 2,756 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    I'd invite you to watch the video. .
    I've always been puzzled by posters who want you to debate videos........when ever you do listen to them and comment they always say, "oh, that wasn't the point I was making"..........if you want to debate, take the time to type out what you want to say.....

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PostmodernProphet For This Post:

    Truth Detector (01-07-2019), USFREEDOM911 (01-07-2019)

  10. #21 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    135,319
    Thanks
    13,309
    Thanked 40,977 Times in 32,292 Posts
    Groans
    3,664
    Groaned 2,869 Times in 2,756 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    let's clear away the manufactured panic over illegal immigration.
    you'll have to start by defending this idiotic claim.........how can there be eleven million illegals here and not be a problem?......

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PostmodernProphet For This Post:

    Truth Detector (01-07-2019), USFREEDOM911 (01-07-2019)

  12. #22 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    135,319
    Thanks
    13,309
    Thanked 40,977 Times in 32,292 Posts
    Groans
    3,664
    Groaned 2,869 Times in 2,756 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    for each would be as much as $74.5 billion for Trump's wall
    lol......Pelosi shut down the government over $5B.........

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PostmodernProphet For This Post:

    Truth Detector (01-07-2019), USFREEDOM911 (01-07-2019)

  14. #23 | Top
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,543
    Thanks
    441
    Thanked 1,874 Times in 1,170 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 202 Times in 195 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    You keep leaving off the rest!!
    You lost track of the thread. Go back and reread, dummy.

  15. #24 | Top
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,543
    Thanks
    441
    Thanked 1,874 Times in 1,170 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 202 Times in 195 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    if you want to debate, take the time to type out what you want to say.....
    I did. I provided it in summary form. Go back and reread. If you need more detail, I can provide that, too. But the wingnuts don't seem to care to engage on the substance at all, so I'm not going to write a book they'll never read.

  16. #25 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    42,254
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 22,245 Times in 13,970 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 3,056 Times in 2,851 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    I've always been puzzled by posters who want you to debate videos........when ever you do listen to them and comment they always say, "oh, that wasn't the point I was making"..........if you want to debate, take the time to type out what you want to say.....
    This from a poster who leaves dangling participles nearly every time he enters

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to archives For This Post:

    rjhenn (01-07-2019)

  18. #26 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Delray Beach FL
    Posts
    115,590
    Thanks
    125,219
    Thanked 27,477 Times in 22,782 Posts
    Groans
    3,768
    Groaned 3,245 Times in 2,985 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    You keep leaving off the rest!!

    Is that because you aren't able to multi-task and can only address what you think was said??
    It's because this poster is a dishonest moron plain and simple. It is a Democrat/Liberal trait.
    "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."


    A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
    Author: Booker T. Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Unless you just can't stand the idea of "ni**ers" teaching white kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Address the topic, not other posters.

  19. #27 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,055
    Thanks
    2,436
    Thanked 8,812 Times in 6,202 Posts
    Groans
    568
    Groaned 493 Times in 469 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    To get it out of the way, some will be tempted to reply "tl;dr" and move on. Consider it done and save yourself the time. But for those willing to put in some time and thought, here's an idea for addressing our real immigration issues.

    First, let's clear away the manufactured panic over illegal immigration. You may not know it from watching Fox News, but there's no actual border crisis. Illegal immigration in this country has fallen greatly from its peak back in the Clinton years. And, anecdotes of individual criminal acts by illegal immigrants notwithstanding,
    When you start a thread so dishonestly, why should anyone take you seriously? Serious question.
    Every life matters

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to countryboy For This Post:

    Truth Detector (01-07-2019)

  21. #28 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,055
    Thanks
    2,436
    Thanked 8,812 Times in 6,202 Posts
    Groans
    568
    Groaned 493 Times in 469 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Getin the ring View Post
    that's a joke right?

    I quit reading when she said illegal immigration is not a problem, kind of hard to get past stone cold nut-bag talk
    Exactly. I'm sure the families of Kate Steinley, and Ronil Singh, and countless others, feel the murder of their loved ones by illegal aliens was merely, "anecdotal". It really doesn't get any lower than that. What kind of evil scumbag would actually say that out loud? Wow.....
    Every life matters

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to countryboy For This Post:

    Truth Detector (01-07-2019)

  23. #29 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Delray Beach FL
    Posts
    115,590
    Thanks
    125,219
    Thanked 27,477 Times in 22,782 Posts
    Groans
    3,768
    Groaned 3,245 Times in 2,985 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    I find it laughable when dishonest morons on the liberal left declare that we do not have an ILLEGAL immigration problem. It is almost as ignorant and lame as claiming that a wall will do nothing to stop it.

    But let's remember, we are dealing with dishonest leftist Fascist assholes with an agenda to turn this great country into a third world shit hole. They use lies and strawmen and change the dialogue from ILLEGAL immigrants to "undocumented immigrants".

    We certainly do have a problem in this country. It is an ideological cancer that threatens the very existence of America. It is one that promotes laziness, criminality and demagoguery supplanting facts, the truth and reality.

    The Democratic Party of the Jackass used to be concerned with border security and declared they were when they held Congressional power and promised reform during the Reagan years. Thirty years later, they still choose to do nothing and see uneducated hoards from third world shit holes as the perfect DNC constituency. Why else would they CHOOSE to fight a President trying to do his constitutional duty over what amounts to a trifle .065% of the Federal Budget?

    There is only ONE reason for such moronic partisan chicanery; and that is, to try to prevent a President from carrying out his agenda even when it makes perfect sense for purely partisan purposes that harm Americans.

    The hypocrisy is complete; during Obamunism these same partisan shills whined about obstructing Obama's agenda. Now, obstruction is a good thing for the sake of obstructing. Lying is okay. Deflecting is okay. Impugning this Presidency and our election systems are okay. Demagoguery is okay.

    This is the new low the Democratic Party of the Jackass are willing to stoop because they refuse to accept the results of an election and have a dishonest FAKE media to promote their Fascist ideological views.

    We do have a MASSIVE illegal alien problem. There are many documented cases of criminality and murder by these illegals. They break our laws and thumb their noses at them simply by being here illegally. That is a FACT. Arguing that citizens do it is not only weak, but asinine.

    We can solve it. First, by not having "sanctuary" cities and ignoring our laws, and actually enforcing the laws we have. Secondly, by ensuring that areas that are easily accessible have a barrier to entry to prevent easy illegal crossings. Thirdly, by having an internet based system of approving LEGAL immigration and Green Card users and when finding abuse, tracking them down and deporting them with no chance of re-entry.

    Employers should have a database they can access to verify the credentials being presented to ensure that the individuals applying for work actually are legally entitled including a photo. This is simple and easy to do. The data also ensures that if someone continues working here with an expired visa, and are paying taxes, that they be flagged for removal and it usually entails a visit to the last known address of the taxpayer or the employer.

    EVERYONE can agree to the above except for dishonest actors who don't care about illegal immigration, but rather, an agenda that leads to the further destruction and decline of our nation.
    Last edited by Truth Detector; 01-07-2019 at 05:15 PM.
    "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."


    A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
    Author: Booker T. Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Unless you just can't stand the idea of "ni**ers" teaching white kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Address the topic, not other posters.

  24. #30 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74,838
    Thanks
    15,266
    Thanked 14,432 Times in 12,044 Posts
    Groans
    18,546
    Groaned 1,699 Times in 1,647 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    You lost track of the thread. Go back and reread, dummy.
    Which has nothing to do with you leaving off the rest of what I posted.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


Similar Threads

  1. Fair Immigration VS Free Immigration
    By sanetrain in forum Off Topic Forum
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 07-02-2016, 08:01 PM
  2. New idea on immigration!
    By Jarod in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-16-2012, 08:22 AM
  3. I like this idea
    By FUCK THE POLICE in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-05-2008, 05:17 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •