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Thread: Flat Wrong: The Misunderstood History of Flat Earth Theories

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    Default Flat Wrong: The Misunderstood History of Flat Earth Theories

    3 JANUARY, 2019 - 02:03 ANCIENT-ORIGINS
    Flat Wrong: The Misunderstood History of Flat Earth Theories

    By Chris Fleming /The Conversation

    For most people, being described as a “flat Earther” is an insult. The idea of the Earth being flat is considered not only wrong, but a model of wrongness, the gold standard of being incorrect about something. This being so, oddly enough, most people described pejoratively as “flat Earthers” do not actually believe that the Earth is flat. “Flat Earther” is simply a scientifically seasoned variation of “idiot”.

    For a recent example, US President Barack Obama recently expressed impatience with the persistent objections put forward by climate change deniers by saying: “We don’t have time for a meeting of the Flat Earth Society.”

    In a subsequent move that one can read as either very fortunate or very unfortunate, the real Flat Earth Society issued a statement in support of the hypothesis of anthropogenic climate change.

    What do we do, then, when someone actually does believe that the Earth is flat, as the American rapper B.o.B expressed recently ? The usual path seems to be blocked; it is difficult to insult someone with a term that they themselves happily adopt.

    Edge of the World

    But what exactly is a “flat Earth theory”? In fact, there never has been anything called “the flat Earth theory”. Different cultures at different times have posited a staggeringly diverse array of worldviews which cannot easily be summed up with the phrase “flat Earth.” Nor is the idea of a flat Earth something that is exclusive to the Western world.

    Even the most cursory historical survey shows that the idea that the Earth is flat has been a notion shared by an extraordinarily wide range of cultures and tied to vastly different metaphysical systems and cosmologies.

    Ancient Flat Earth Beliefs

    It was a common belief in ancient Greece, as well as in India, China, and in a wide range of indigenous or “pre-state” cultures. Both the poets Homer and Hesiod described a flat Earth. This was maintained by Thales, considered by many one of the first philosophers, Lucretius an avowed materialist, as well as Democritus the founder of atomic theory.

    The ancient Greek conception, in turn, has some parallels with that of early Egyptian and Mesopotamian thought, with both thinking that the Earth was a large disc surrounded by a gigantic body of water. The ancient Chinese were also virtually unanimous in their view of the Earth’s flatness, although – in this system – the heavens were spherical, and the Earth was square.


    A number of ancient Indian conceptions common – with some degree of variation – to ancient Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism tie their cosmography to botanical images with the Earth being comprised of four continents surrounding a mountain, akin to the way petals encircle the bud of a flower. Ancient Norse thought postulated a circular flat Earth surrounded by a sea inhabited by a giant serpent.

    Others, like the Mountain Arapesh people of Papua New Guinea, envisage a world which ends at the horizon, the place where giant clouds gather. But even where commonalities exist across these traditions vastly different metaphysical and cosmological narratives are at stake.

    And to complicate these matters, we must add cultures and intellectual traditions for whom the shape of Earth is of no interest whatsoever. Many tribal or pre-state societies, for instance, have little concern for what might be considered cosmography.

    Belief Turns to a Spherical Earth for Some…


    However, from at least the 6th century BC the theory of the flat Earth began to fall out of favor. By the time we get to Aristotle in the 4th century BC the idea of a spherical Earth is commonplace, at least among the educated classes. And by the 1st Century BC it is considered an uncontroversial truth. Having said that, the theory of a flat Earth has continued as a minor tradition in thought, like a handful of theories in science such as Lamarckianism and vitalism.


    Despite the historical tide having long turned, the mid 20th century saw the establishment of the Flat Earth Society , started in 1956 by Samuel Shenton , whose work was continued by the retired aircraft mechanic Charles K. Johnson in 1972.

    From California, Johnson functioned as president for The International Flat Earth Society. As its spokesman, he made a series of claims that have now become widespread outside the flat Earth community: the Apollo moon landings were faked and that the correct view of the world is the traditional Christian one of the Earth being flat.

    Johnson, interestingly enough, did not get only his cosmology wrong he got his history and theology wrong as well. Orthodox Christian thinkers, at least since 5th century on, have supported the idea of a spherical Earth from Bede through to Thomas Aquinas.

    Indeed, as the University of California historian Jeffrey Burton Russell has argued, very few educated people in the West after the 3rd century BC thought that the world was flat. This goes directly against the common belief that most people in medieval times believed the Earth was flat.

    continued

    https://www.ancient-origins.net/news...-earth-0011265
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    How Unenlightened Were They?
    But if the flat Earth serves as a kind of myth or fantasy for those who believe in it, there are also myths about the flat Earth that are just as widespread.

    One of the most widely propagated myths in the contemporary world is the belief that Columbus was advised by the Catholic Church to abandon his journey on the basis that he risked falling off the edge of the world.

    Its source is the 19th century writer, Washington Irving , author of other rigorous historical accounts such as The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle.
    What this suggests is that we are sometimes overly keen to enlist the past – or our version of the past – in our attempts to feel better about how enlightened we are and how benighted were our predecessors.

    The famous "Flat Earth" Flammarion engraving. The image depicts a man crawling under the edge of the sky as if it were a solid hemisphere, to look at the mysterious Empyrean beyond. (Camille Flammarion / Public Domain)

    The famous "Flat Earth" Flammarion engraving. The image depicts a man crawling under the edge of the sky as if it were a solid hemisphere, to look at the mysterious Empyrean beyond. (Camille Flammarion / Public Domain )

    That, of course, does not mean that no one believed the Earth was flat in the middle ages; nor does it entail that nobody believes it today. Mohammed Yusuf, the founder of Boko Haram, famously claimed to not believe in a whole series of modern ideas which he thought were contrary to Islam – including the spherical shape of the Earth .

    If there is anything truly astounding about BoB’s improbable cosmographical musings it is that the battle between him and Neil deGrasse Tyson is at this stage at least, being carried out only through the medium of rap. That could be a historical first for cosmography.

    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    For anyone who is a geek for intellectual history, astronomy and mathematics, the story of how the ancient Greeks theorized about a spherical earth, and ultimately estimated its circumference, is pretty bloody interesting.

    Pythagoras, I believe, was the first to propose the earth was spherical. But it was down to Eratosthenes to actually devise a method to calculate the circumference, using the angles of shadows reported at various points on the Earth. Eratosthenes' estimate was actually remarkably close to what we know the actual circumference is - I believe he got to within 10 percent of the true value of the circumference. Which is pretty incredible, considering this was like 200 BCE, or something like that.

    Columbus screwed himself by not using the value Eratosthenes' estimated. I think Columbus used the incorrect value Ptolemy estimated, which is why Columbus incorrectly thought it would be shorter to sail to China by going west.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    For anyone who is a geek for intellectual history, astronomy and mathematics, the story of how the ancient Greeks theorized about a spherical earth, and ultimately estimated its circumference, is pretty bloody interesting.

    Pythagoras, I believe, was the first to propose the earth was spherical. But it was down to Eratosthenes to actually devise a method to calculate the circumference, using the angles of shadows reported at various points on the Earth. Eratosthenes' estimate was actually remarkably close to what we know the actual circumference is - I believe he got to within 10 percent of the true value of the circumference. Which is pretty incredible, considering this was like 200 BCE, or something like that.

    Columbus screwed himself by not using the value Eratosthenes' estimated. I think Columbus used the incorrect value Ptolemy estimated, which is why Columbus incorrectly thought it would be shorter to sail to China by going west.
    Wow... You have a good grasp of this stuff. More so than I do.
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    No, the Bible does not teach that the earth is flat. * The Bible is not a science textbook. At the same time, nothing in the Bible contradicts proved science. What the Bible says is “always reliable, now and forever.”​—Psalm 111:8.

    https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teaching...ns/flat-earth/
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    I've long considered Thales to be the greatest (and likely most intelligent) of the Greeks. He pioneered Greek mathematics and philosophy all on his own. Everyone else followed in his footsteps, and had at least his works to use as inspiration. I guess he can't be faulted for believing in a Flat Earth, seeing as how there was no one for him to learn from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Wow... You have a good grasp of this stuff. More so than I do.
    Hello.
    You overestimate me. I can't pat myself on the back, because I just very recently watched some lectures on ancient Greece, and the intellectual history of Greece. So whatever I was able to retain is fresh in my mind. The part about Columbus screwing himself by relying on Ptolemy's geographic estmates was a factoid that really struck me, in part because it was a mistake, a clerical error almost, that was very consequential for world history.

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    p.s., the reason "flat earther" is such an good and effective metaphor is that it can be applied equally to evolution deniers, climate deniers, bible thumping evangelicals, Trump voters, and pretty much all conservatives and Republicans who are hostile to science, trained expertise, and scholarly knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    I've long considered Thales to be the greatest (and likely most intelligent) of the Greeks. He pioneered Greek mathematics and philosophy all on his own. Everyone else followed in his footsteps, and had at least his works to use as inspiration. I guess he can't be faulted for believing in a Flat Earth, seeing as how there was no one for him to learn from.
    I would need to take a semester long class in Greek intellectual history at a minimum, to have an educated opinion on the relative merits of the Greek philosophers. I find Aristotle more grounded and empirical than the more transcendent Plato, but I have a lot to learn about both. One thing I do know: I need to brush up on the Stoic school of philosophy because from what I gather Stoicism influenced not only the American founding fathers, but influenced Christianity and western culture in substantial and fundamental ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I would need to take a semester long class in Greek intellectual history at a minimum, to have an educated opinion on the relative merits of the Greek philosophers. I find Aristotle more grounded and empirical than the more transcendent Plato, but I have a lot to learn about both. One thing I do know: I need to brush up on the Stoic school of philosophy because from what I gather Stoicism influenced not only the American founding fathers, but influenced Christianity and western culture in substantial and fundamental ways.
    Yeah, I never got to cover stoicism. It was pretty much passed over when I took philosophy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    Yeah, I never got to cover stoicism. It was pretty much passed over when I took philosophy.
    I salute you for your interest in history, foundations of western civilization, and intellectual history.

    I have never looked down my nose at the liberal arts, which in the realm of human knowledge is just as important as science and mathematics.

    The intellectuals of antiquity did not even conceive of this artificial division between the humanities and the natural sciences that post-enlightenment humans constructed. And that is intellectual tradition that I try to make my touchstone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    How Unenlightened Were They?
    But if the flat Earth serves as a kind of myth or fantasy for those who believe in it, there are also myths about the flat Earth that are just as widespread.

    One of the most widely propagated myths in the contemporary world is the belief that Columbus was advised by the Catholic Church to abandon his journey on the basis that he risked falling off the edge of the world.

    Its source is the 19th century writer, Washington Irving , author of other rigorous historical accounts such as The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle.
    What this suggests is that we are sometimes overly keen to enlist the past – or our version of the past – in our attempts to feel better about how enlightened we are and how benighted were our predecessors.

    The famous "Flat Earth" Flammarion engraving. The image depicts a man crawling under the edge of the sky as if it were a solid hemisphere, to look at the mysterious Empyrean beyond. (Camille Flammarion / Public Domain)

    The famous "Flat Earth" Flammarion engraving. The image depicts a man crawling under the edge of the sky as if it were a solid hemisphere, to look at the mysterious Empyrean beyond. (Camille Flammarion / Public Domain )

    That, of course, does not mean that no one believed the Earth was flat in the middle ages; nor does it entail that nobody believes it today. Mohammed Yusuf, the founder of Boko Haram, famously claimed to not believe in a whole series of modern ideas which he thought were contrary to Islam – including the spherical shape of the Earth .

    If there is anything truly astounding about BoB’s improbable cosmographical musings it is that the battle between him and Neil deGrasse Tyson is at this stage at least, being carried out only through the medium of rap. That could be a historical first for cosmography.

    That would be the Antarctic Circle around the "edge"...
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I salute you for your interest in history, foundations of western civilization, and intellectual history.

    I have never looked down my nose at the liberal arts, which in the realm of human knowledge is just as important as science and mathematics.

    The intellectuals of antiquity did not even conceive of this artificial division between the humanities and the natural sciences that post-enlightenment humans constructed. And that is intellectual tradition that I try to make my touchstone.
    History was the only subject I excelled at in HS, so, it was a forgone conclusion that it would be my major. I always thought the medieval trivium and quadravidium were organized in an intriguing manner, because music was part of the mathematical disciplines.

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