Frank Apisa (01-11-2019)
Totally runs in contradiction to the metric you were using previously, showing that after the tax rates were raised, rev-GDP increased:
And here:
So when we combined the two, we see this:
2008: 17.1%
2009: 14.5%
2010: 14.4%
2011: 14.8%
2012: 15.1%
2013: 16.5%
2014: 17.2%
2015: 17.9%
2016: 17.4%
2017: 17.0%
So your link there says that rich people avoided paying taxes, however, your data shows that the amount of revenue the government collected actually increased substantially.
The problem with your argument is that you engage in sophistry, and you jump from one metric to the other, so you never end up making a coherent argument because one point you make in one argument totally contradicts the point you make in another.
When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist
Frank Apisa (01-11-2019)
LV426 (01-11-2019), Phantasmal (01-11-2019)
Exactly.
Conservatives act in bad faith because when you subscribe to Conservatism, it means you have to ignore anything that contradicts your beliefs. You have to misrepresent things; you have to compromise your ethics and values for sophistry and obfuscation because Conservatism is about preserving the individual ego by sacrificing society and truth.
Conservatives are just morally reprehensible people, and all their lifeboats should be torched.
Conservatism should not survive past this decade. It needs to be completely destroyed. It is not a benefit to society. Conservatism is anti-social.
When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist
Phantasmal (01-11-2019), signalmankenneth (01-11-2019)
You mean tax revenue increased as we recovered from the recession? Who knew? If you notice, it remained at those levels even in 2017 following a tax cut. Also, you have to look at long-term trends, not year to year changes which could be affected by man factors.
Previously you claimed revenue as a percent of GDP meant nothing; now you are using it to support your argument.
That is what I said--that Obama signed the bill to increase taxes on those above $400,000 in 2013. That means any increase in revenue would not be seen until 2014. You look for things to argue about even when you know when you are wrong (or cannot understand what you read).
Changing the rate by 1% makes the incorrect assumption everybody is paying 1% more in taxes on total GDP. The higher rates do not apply to all income but only after reaching a certain income threshold. So a person could be in the 39.5 bracket but only pay 22% (for example) on total income because they were paying the lower rates on lower income. Also, we do not pay taxes on total GDP.
Marginal rates do not show what we actually pay--that is what effective rates show us.
Simple economics.
Tax rates do not determine how much revenue is collected because you don't know how much income people will pay taxes on and how people will change their behavior to avoid higher taxes (like buying municipal bonds for income). Also, tax rates do not tell you how much people will earn in each income bracket unless you can predict the income of everybody.
You are confused about taxation.
There you go again!
You're doing that thing where you make deliberately vague statements that you then whittle down and redefine later on just to save face.
Tax revenue as a percentage of GDP increased to levels above where they were prior to the recession.
That's what your data shows.
After the recession, tax rates for the wealthy returned to pre-Bush levels.
Subsequently, rev-GDP increased to pre-Bush levels too.
What a fucking idiot. Way to self-own.
When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist
Moron.
The Bush Tax Cuts were set to expire at the end of 2012, regardless of what Obama did.
You said that revenue wouldn't hit until 2014, but that's wrong. You were wrong. Now you're trying to retroactively correct yourself, when the entire crux of your argument was that letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire on the wealthy at the end of 2012 didn't affect rev-GDP when the stats you posted showed that it clearly did.
Enough.
When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist
When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist
Again, you're being a sophist.
Changing the rev-GDP rate by 1% is a difference of $200 BILLION.
$200B would fully fund free public colleges for 25 years.
An incremental change in rev-GDP has a massive effect on the amount of gross revenue collected. Every 1% change in rev-GDP is $200B.
So you're admitting that raising taxes would nominally increase rev-GDP, but what you're not admitting is that nominal changes to rev-GDP has massive effects on the amount of revenue collected.
1% of GDP = $200B.
$200B is 1/4 of our current deficit.
When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist
I can understand muni's being tax free. It allows municipalities to float bonds at a reasonable rate.
But stuff like capital gains...should be considered...well, INCOME...and should be taxed just like any other income.
Inheritances should be taxed as income.
And the rates should go WAY up...over 75% on top income.
Most of the reason given for not doing so...really do not rise above rationalizations in order to favor the rich.
Just sayin.'
PoliTalker (01-11-2019)
Now you're arguing tax rates don't collect revenue.
So you're in crazytown now, all because you don't want to give me the satisfaction.
Using your own data, you see that an incremental, nominal change to the rev-GDP rate has a massive effect on the total gross revenue collected. So much so that a single 1% change to the rev-GDP rate is the difference of $200B.
What are some individual things $200B can pay for?
1. 1/2 of Medicaid.
2. 1/4 of the deficit.
3. 1/3 of the defense budget
4. 25 years of free public college
So yeah, raising taxes does result in more revenue to pay for things. You just don't want to admit that because doing so would be an admission that I'm right, AOC is right, and all mainstream economists are right.
Admitting that we're all right and you're wrong is simply something your fragile ego cannot handle.
When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist
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