How much has Obamacare saved the American people?

[Truth Detector]

I did. Now it's your turn: what's healthcare inflation been since Obamacare? What was the lowest rate of healthcare inflation for a period of that length before Obamacare.

If you need someone to walk you through the math, just let me know.

I keep pointing out that reducing the rate of cost increase were not the arguments made to sell Obamacare. Why do you continue ignoring those FACTS?

Americans were told that healthcare costs would actually go down. They were also told they could keep their doctors. They were also told they could keep their plans.

All of these were lies. Why do you keep pontificating about the lower cost of increase when Obamacare has not lived up to ANY of its promises snowflake?

Obama didn't say Obamacare would reduce the rate of increase; he actually claimed they would go DOWN and that they would LOWER the deficit.

Jonathan Gruber Videos: Oneuli "Too Stupid to Understand" Obamacare
[/QUOTE]

[Oneuli]

You want others to speculate on what might have happened...

Yes, and as you can see from the statistics, my speculation is solidly in line with the hard data. It's not just that we had somewhat below-average healthcare inflation since Obamacare. It's that we set a record, by a pretty substantial margin, for the least healthcare inflation ever for a period of this length.

With public policy, you can almost never deduce with certainty cause and effect, because everything is too complicated for that. So, we generally have two choices: (1) make policy decisions that are most in line with available data, even though that requires inductive reasoning and some educated guesswork, or (2) make policy decisions that are out of line with available data, because it lines up with our prejudices. I'm arguing for the former option. Conservatives would be cool with that if the data happened to line up with their preferred choice, but since that's almost never the case, they usually are stuck going for the second option.

[Truth Detector]

I point out the lower rate of increase because that's the relevant metric for figuring out if we're better off with Obamacare than we would have been without it. What you would prefer to do is turn this into a "why I hate Obama" thread. That's the right-wing way. When people are too stupid to talk policy, they talk politicians instead. But the point of this thread was never whether or not the sales pitch for Obamacare was forthright. If you want a thread on that, feel free to start one. The point of this thread is to show how much Obamacare saved Americans.

And I keep pointing out that Americans were told that healthcare costs would actually go down. They were also told they could keep their doctors. They were also told they could keep their plans.

All of these were lies. Why do you keep pontificating about the lower cost of increase when Obamacare has not lived up to ANY of its promises snowflake?

Obama didn't say Obamacare would reduce the rate of increase; he actually claimed they would go DOWN and that they would LOWER the deficit.

Jonathan Gruber Videos: Oneuli "Too Stupid to Understand" Obamacare
[/QUOTE]

[Lightbringer]

I keep pointing out that reducing the rate of cost increase were not the arguments made to sell Obamacare. Why do you continue ignoring those FACTS?

Americans were told that healthcare costs would actually go down. They were also told they could keep their doctors. They were also told they could keep their plans.

All of these were lies. Why do you keep pontificating about the lower cost of increase when Obamacare has not lived up to ANY of its promises snowflake?

Obama didn't say Obamacare would reduce the rate of increase; he actually claimed they would go DOWN and that they would LOWER the deficit.

Jonathan Gruber Videos: Oneuli "Too Stupid to Understand" Obamacare

Preach it brother!

[volsrock]

Hefty premium increases are the new normal. Americans who shopped for Obamacare-compliant coverage off the exchanges fared just as poorly as those who watched rates soar on the exchanges. The average individual market plan sold through eHealth, an online insurance marketplace, cost $197 per month in 2013. In 2018, the average plan on eHealth was $440 per month — a 123 percent increase.

1. Health insurance is more expensive than ever.

Remember the promise that the average family would save $2,500 a year on health insurance? Forget about it.

In May 2017 the Department of Health and Human Services reported that average health insurance premiums doubled since 2013. How many families’ incomes doubled over that same period?

In 2018 costs have risen by another 19 percent for high-cost plans and 32 percent for the cheapest plans, according to a study by the Urban Institute. Overall inflation for all other goods and services are running at 2 percent.


4. Americans are paying more money for less health coverage.

According to Kaiser, the average deductible for people with employer-provided health coverage last year was $1,221 compared to $303 in 2006. Usually, you pay higher deductibles for lower premiums. Under Obamacare, you pay more when you get your hospital bill.


https://www.heritage.org/health-care...hate-obamacare

[Oneuli]

Yes, you did.

What makes you think that? Please copy and paste the words of mine that you misread to say that.

[Oneuli]

Where in that link are you getting the numbers you posted?

I calculated them. Just take the most recent CPI:medical and calculate the percentage increase from March 2010 (when Obamacare became law). Now calculate the increase for every other period of that length leading up to that date.

[Truth Detector]

Hefty premium increases are the new normal. Americans who shopped for Obamacare-compliant coverage off the exchanges fared just as poorly as those who watched rates soar on the exchanges. The average individual market plan sold through eHealth, an online insurance marketplace, cost $197 per month in 2013. In 2018, the average plan on eHealth was $440 per month — a 123 percent increase.

1. Health insurance is more expensive than ever.

Remember the promise that the average family would save $2,500 a year on health insurance? Forget about it.

In May 2017 the Department of Health and Human Services reported that average health insurance premiums doubled since 2013. How many families’ incomes doubled over that same period?

In 2018 costs have risen by another 19 percent for high-cost plans and 32 percent for the cheapest plans, according to a study by the Urban Institute. Overall inflation for all other goods and services are running at 2 percent.


4. Americans are paying more money for less health coverage.

According to Kaiser, the average deductible for people with employer-provided health coverage last year was $1,221 compared to $303 in 2006. Usually, you pay higher deductibles for lower premiums. Under Obamacare, you pay more when you get your hospital bill.


https://www.heritage.org/health-care...hate-obamacare

That's gonna leave a mark on Oneuli's strawman!

[Truth Detector]

I calculated them.

[Lightbringer]

And I keep pointing out that Americans were told that healthcare costs would actually go down. They were also told they could keep their doctors. They were also told they could keep their plans.

All of these were lies. Why do you keep pontificating about the lower cost of increase when Obamacare has not lived up to ANY of its promises snowflake?

Obama didn't say Obamacare would reduce the rate of increase; he actually claimed they would go DOWN and that they would LOWER the deficit.

Jonathan Gruber Videos: Oneuli "Too Stupid to Understand" Obamacare

I did get to keep my doctor but that's only because I stayed with BC/BS. I didn't get to keep my plan and my costs did not go down, they went up...a lot.

[Oneuli]

It did?

Yes.

[volsrock]

Pennsylvanians who purchase individual Obamacare insurance without subsidies will pay 33% higher premiums, on average, for 2017. As a result, the cheapest plan from Geisinger for a 40-year-old nonsmoker will cost $441 per month next year, up from $247 in 2016.Oct 18, 2016

http://time.com/money/4535394/obamac...s-2017-states/

[Oneuli]

There is no way you can subsidize millions of people and claim that we are saving money.

Yet, as you can see from the stats, that's just what happened.

[Oneuli]

https://ldi.upenn.edu/brief/effects-...st-containment

Try reading this. It is a good read. As it states, due to rising costs, many companies went back to offering high deductible plans. That lowered the growth rate in healthcare costs with the rise in 2013 being just under 3%. After the ACA went into effect in Oct 2013, the growth rate spiked up to 5.3% in 2014 and 5.8% in 2015. So no, the ACA was not a positive on the growth in healthcare costs.

My data is for the entire period, from Obamacare becoming law through November of 2018. As a simple matter of fact, healthcare inflation over that period was significantly lower than over any period of that length before Obamacare became law. As your link points out, "we have not returned to the double-digit increases of the past" and "to date, evidence has shown health spending has slowed since ACA's passage in 2010." Those authors think more is needed in "the next round of health reform" to bend the cost curve. Fine. But so far, it looks like a big improvement.

[Truth Detector]

I did get to keep my doctor but that's only because I stayed with BC/BS. I didn't get to keep my plan and my costs did not go down, they went up...a lot.

I wasn't able to keep my doctor or my plan. The costs have doubled.