How much has Obamacare saved the American people?

[Oneuli]

Let me explain Econ to you. If you increase demand and don't expand supply costs go up.

The data shows that costs have risen, but at much, much slower rates than was typical before Obamacare. That's the FACT conservatives are desperately trying to avoid acknowledging.

[Truth Detector]

Of course. But they're not the same thing, as much as the wingnuts here seem to imagine they are. Deficits and debt are related in approximately the same way as velocity and distance are related (or, for that matter, the way that acceleration and velocity are related). Yet people here keep quoting debt figures as if they were deficits.

Who has claimed the were the same thing scarecrow? You love constructing strawmen don't you snowflake?

[Truth Detector]

Obamacare has saved the American people a great deal of money (see top post). However, it's true the GOP has tried to sabotage it, including by effectively eliminating the mandate. That sets it up for long-term failure or at least serious under-performance. But it doesn't change the fact it's been a significant improvement.

That is a lie; your desperate attempts to suggest otherwise are laughably stupid.

[Oneuli]

Your attempts to argue that the ACA actually saved Americans money when it has not

I made my argument. I showed how healthcare inflation since Obamacare became law has been, by a margin, the lowest for a period of that length in history. If you have a counterargument, that goes beyond bleating that I'm "moronic and retarded," just make it. Why do you find it so hard to do so? If you think about that question honestly, you'll learn something.

[Truth Detector]

The data shows that costs have risen, but at much, much slower rates than was typical before Obamacare. That's the FACT conservatives are desperately trying to avoid acknowledging.

I love that "slower rate" claim. Does it include the costs associated with the massive subsidies the ACA is costing the taxpayers?

[Oneuli]

you're special I guess.

Nah. I just read. If the rest of you did so, you'd be aware of these things, too.

[Lightbringer]

The data shows that costs have risen, but at much, much slower rates than was typical before Obamacare. That's the FACT conservatives are desperately trying to avoid acknowledging.

Costs have risen.

[Truth Detector]

I made my argument. I showed how healthcare inflation since Obamacare became law has been, by a margin, the lowest for a period of that length in history. If you have a counterargument, that goes beyond bleating that I'm "moronic and retarded," just make it. Why do you find it so hard to do so? If you think about that question honestly, you'll learn something.

Wrong; you made a farcical claim and then flailed and stomped your arrogant, pompous little feet when proved to be full of crap. Stomp harder snowflake.

[Oneuli]

I've pointed out many

As you're aware, you've yet to be able to point out any. You made one particularly stupid attempt -- the one where you quoted annualized numbers with the thought you were catching me in some sort of error regarding the decade-growth numbers I'd posted. But, as you remember, I demolished you completely on that one. Can you think of any other time you've tried to point out an error I've made?

[Oneuli]

The CBO estimates are a joke.

They're the best thing we have for lining up fiscal years with presidential terms. And they're certainly not a joke when viewed over that short a time-frame. You just want to shove Bush's FY 2009 spending (e.g., the bailouts) into Obama's column. Rejected.

[Oneuli]

Agreed. CBO estimates are a ruse to dupe the uninformed.

By statute, the CBO can only score what Congress gives them.

Congress knows how to front load taxes and backload expenses to make their bullshit look good

Anyone who believes a CBO estimate deserves to be fucked over

Once we play that game, all we have is dueling assertions. I can assert that the CBO estimate badly understated the deficit at the time Obama was taking office, and badly overestimated it at the time he was leaving, and thus that, in fact, Obama reduced the deficit by 90% (or whatever bullshit stat I want to pull out of my ass). But since I'm not a dishonest person, I don't play that game. Instead, I try to come up with the best estimate of what the deficit actually was at each point, and I use that. If you have a better estimate, feel free to provide it.

[Oneuli]

You have failed to provide proof of your position.

I've provided arguments and supporting data. If you can find a mistake in my data or an error in my argument, feel free to address them specifically. But, if you're like a typical right winger, you'd prefer to cower behind generic personal insults, rather than getting into the details. Most wingnuts know, deep down, that they're badly out of their depth.

[Lightbringer]

I've provided arguments and supporting data. If you can find a mistake in my data or an error in my argument, feel free to address them specifically. But, if you're like a typical right winger, you'd prefer to cower behind generic personal insults, rather than getting into the details. Most wingnuts know, deep down, that they're badly out of their depth.

No, you have done no such thing.

[Oneuli]

I posted the REAL GDP growth dumbass.

So did I. I posted what it was for the decade. You posted what it was for the decade if you annualize it. The fact you seem to think I didn't post real GDP growth suggests to me you don't know what the term means. So, what do you think it means?

You're the one attempting to argue that total growth for each decade is a meaningful statistic.

It is, of course, meaningful. It doesn't matter if we report the data in annualized terms, or as an average daily rate, or an average monthly rate, or whether we report it for the decade as a whole. So long as we list it the same way for each, the figures allow for comparisons. So, they're all equally useful for purposes of the comparison being made. This is VERY basic math. You should have had it in grade school.

So, what do you think "real GDP growth" refers to? Be specific, please.

[Oneuli]

T
Actually, you're attempts to conflate them into savings for the American taxpayer

What made you think I was trying to conflate them into savings for the American taxpayer? Be specific, please. If you do a search of my posts for the phrase "the American taxpayer," you should be able to spot your error. Good luck.