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Thread: Is Special Counsel Mueller’s Office About to Have Its First Conviction Overturned?

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    Flynn cannot withdraw his plea. He has been convicted. He can appeal the conviction but not withdraw the plea.

    He has been nabbed and grabbed fairly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    It takes a LOT OF CHUTZPAH to talk about morals and ethics when it comes to Mueller!!
    Chutzpah from the REPUBLICANS who chose him, approved him and who they drew from THEIR own party? Wow, thank god MUELLER isn't a DEMOCRAT!
    WK1 3/28-/4 _Cases 301k--Dead 18.1k Lethality 2.72%
    WK2 4/5-/13 _Cases 555k--Dead 22.1K Lethality 3.9%
    WK3 4/20-/21 Cases 774k -Dead 37.2K Lethality 4.8%
    WK4 4/22-/29 Cases 1M --Dead 58.8K Lethality 5.9%
    WK5 5/1-/8__ Cases 1.3M -Dead 75.7K Lethality 6.1%
    WK6 5/9-16__Cases 1.4M --Dead 85.8K Lethality 6.1%
    WK7 5/17-24_Cases 1.7M - Dead 97.6K Lethality 5.9%
    WK8 5/28 Cases 1.7M - DEAD 101.2K - Same

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centerleftfl View Post
    Chutzpah from the REPUBLICANS who chose him, approved him and who they drew from THEIR own party? Wow, thank god MUELLER isn't a DEMOCRAT!
    Rosenstein chose him. If you think Mueller being a registered Republican, or Comey the same makes any difference..

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymccready View Post
    Flynn cannot withdraw his plea. He has been convicted. He can appeal the conviction but not withdraw the plea.

    He has been nabbed and grabbed fairly.
    Bullshit, it was entrapment and will be overturned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Bullshit, it was entrapment and will be overturned.
    I have my doubts.
    we don't get a lot of justice when it comes to special prosecutors who live on the edge with their convictions.

    all the entrapment can and is probably shown to Sullivan- but he can simply comment and leave the conviction
    as it's clear Flynn lied about "talking about sanctions" - even if it was thru a corrupt process

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    Havana Moon has no idea what is a 'process crime' or 'entrapment.' He and others who use those terms are talking through their asses.

    Flynn was taken down fairly and squarely. He will be sentenced. Nothing can be done about that . . . nothing.

    Noise, of all people, understands that. Good on him.

    Trump however can pardon him.

    Judge Nap on Flynn Sentencing: No Entrapment, No Basis to ... insider.foxnews.com/2018/12/17/judge-napolitano-michael... 2 hours ago · Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano disagrees with Rep. Darrell Issa and others who have argued that Michael Flynn was the victim of entrapment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymccready View Post
    Havana Moon has no idea what is a 'process crime' or 'entrapment.' He and others who use those terms are talking through their asses.

    Flynn was taken down fairly and squarely. He will be sentenced. Nothing can be done about that . . . nothing.

    Noise, of all people, understands that. Good on him.

    Trump however can pardon him.

    Judge Nap on Flynn Sentencing: No Entrapment, No Basis to ... insider.foxnews.com/2018/12/17/judge-napolitano-michael... 2 hours ago · Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano disagrees with Rep. Darrell Issa and others who have argued that Michael Flynn was the victim of entrapment.
    Its all a game, no one knows the facts in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymccready View Post
    Havana Moon has no idea what is a 'process crime' or 'entrapment.' He and others who use those terms are talking through their asses.

    Flynn was taken down fairly and squarely. He will be sentenced. Nothing can be done about that . . . nothing.

    Noise, of all people, understands that. Good on him.

    Trump however can pardon him.

    Judge Nap on Flynn Sentencing: No Entrapment, No Basis to ... insider.foxnews.com/2018/12/17/judge-napolitano-michael... 2 hours ago · Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano disagrees with Rep. Darrell Issa and others who have argued that Michael Flynn was the victim of entrapment.
    Give me a fucking break, he lied to Pence and the FBI asked him about that in an informal setting without declaring in advance what was really going on!!

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    Flynn, during his brief time as national security adviser to President Trump, told FBI agents untruths that are contradicted by hard evidence. Why he did that remains a mystery because, with his vast experience in intelligence gathering, he must have known that the FBI had hard evidence of the conversations he denied having with a Russian diplomat. Be that as it may, this reality does not automatically exclude the possibility that the FBI acted improperly in eliciting untruths from him.

    The FBI knew the truth. They had recordings of the conversations. Then why did they ask him whether he had those conversations?
    Obviously, not to learn whether he had them but, rather, to give him the opportunity to lie under oath so that they could squeeze him to provide incriminating information against President Trump.

    If you do not believe me, read what Judge T.S. Ellis III, who presided over the Paul Manafort trial, said to the prosecutors: “You do not really care about Mr. Manafort’s bank fraud. What you really care about is what information Mr. Manafort could give you that would reflect on Mr. Trump or lead to his prosecution or impeachment.”

    Ellis continued: “This vernacular to ‘sing’ is what prosecutors use. What you have got to be careful of is that they may not only sing, they may compose.” Experienced criminal lawyers have seen this phenomenon at work.
    Most judges, many of whom were former prosecutors, have also seen it. But few have the courage to expose it publicly as Ellis did. Judge Emmet Sullivan of the District of Columbia Court also has expressed concern regarding federal prosecutorial practices in the investigation.

    Defenders of the tactics used by special counsel Robert Mueller argue that his potential witnesses are generally guilty of some crime, such as lying to FBI agents, and that may well be true.
    But they are targeted not because of what they may have done.
    They are targeted for what they may know about what the real target may have done.
    Then they, and their relatives who may also be complicit, are threatened with imprisonment and bankruptcy unless they plead guilty and cooperate with prosecutors.


    So the real question, which transcends the Flynn, the Manafort, and even the Trump investigations, is whether these tactics should be deemed acceptable to use in our justice system.
    Is it the proper role of law enforcement to conduct criminal morality tests to determine whether citizens will tell the truth or lie when given the opportunity to do either by FBI agents? Is it proper to target individuals for such tests for the purpose of pressuring them into becoming witnesses against the real target?

    These are important questions for all citizens who care about civil liberties and prosecutorial abuses.
    They should not be addressed in a partisan manner. Instead, they should be answered by reference to the “shoe on the other foot” test.
    How would liberal Democrats react if those or similar prosecutorial tactics were being used against a president Hillary Clinton? I know the answer because I have seen how liberal Democrats reacted when President Bill Clinton was being investigated and impeached
    The shoe was, indeed, on the other foot. Some of the same liberal Democrats, who today are justifying everything Mueller is doing, expressed outrage when the special prosecutor in the Clinton case employed similar tactics. Nor did all conservative Republicans pass the “shoe on the other foot” test as many applauded these tactics when directed against Democrats.

    So back to the question of whether citizens who care about civil liberties should favor the tactics used by the FBI against Flynn.
    I believe the answer should be no. The function of law enforcement is to uncover past crimes, not to provide citizens the opportunity to commit new crimes by testing their veracity.
    There may be extraordinary situations, such as prevention of mass casualty terrorism, that justifies the use of highly questionable tactics but, absent such extraordinary circumstances, FBI agents and prosecutors should not deliberately provide citizens the opportunity to commit federal crimes in order to turn them into government witnesses.

    When questioning any suspect, officials should not ask questions whose answers they already know, for the sole purpose of seeing whether the suspect will lie.
    If they do ask such questions, untruthful answers should not be deemed “material” to the investigation, because the FBI already knew the truth.

    The FBI should not discourage the suspect from having his lawyer present during the questioning, if a false answer will subject him to criminal liability. Even noble ends do not justify ignoble means, and some of the means used by the special counsel have, indeed, been ignoble.
    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...act-improperly

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    No one, Havana Moon, had to give to declare in advance to the the liar (as you admitted he was) what the intent of the FBI agents. All Flynn had to do was be honest. He was not. So, no break for Flynn and no break for you.

    And, yes, noise, the FBI followed fair and true practices in tripping up a liar. Flynn lied to the Vice-President then to the FBI.

    So we have far right troll bots arguing that the liar was treated unfairly. The agents have every professional right to see if an interviewee will lie. Such behavior makes the agents aware of the type of scum with which they are dealing.

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    Mueller's entire charade is about to fall apart, he is about to get bitch slapped by a federal judge
    This just In::: Trump indicted for living in liberals heads and not paying RENT

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmymccready View Post

    And, yes, noise, the FBI followed fair and true practices in tripping up a liar. Flynn lied to the Vice-President then to the FBI.
    When questioning any suspect, officials should not ask questions whose answers they already know, for the sole purpose of seeing whether the suspect will lie.
    If they do ask such questions, untruthful answers should not be deemed “material” to the investigation, because the FBI already knew the truth.

    Defenders of the tactics used by special counsel Robert Mueller argue that his potential witnesses are generally guilty of some crime, such as lying to FBI agents, and that may well be true.
    But they are targeted not because of what they may have done.
    They are targeted for what they may know about what the real target may have done.

    Then they, and their relatives who may also be complicit, are threatened with imprisonment and bankruptcy unless they plead guilty and cooperate with prosecutors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noise View Post
    did you see the author? some goofball Spook who thinks Kysliak might have a FISA..Is there anyone who doesn't get a FISA?
    Page was particularly revolting, given the fact he had JUST A YEAR EARLIER acted as an UC for the FBI!


    But to this nonsense -why was he unmasked and then LEAKED to Ignasius.
    Why the Logan Act references?
    Why the changing of the 302?
    why was he advised he did not need a lawyer when they were there to investigate Flynn -
    not some "training exercise" that McCabe used as a cover story?

    Something is seriously wrong when official government business ( transition teams have legal authority)
    are routinely recorded and from the looks of it routinely unmasked because of the "need to know"
    who was the US official. Why does the FBI/CIA need to know anything about normal phone calls?

    My personal opinion is that the Usual Suspects dragged Flynn into this because they didn't like Flynn
    just like the FISA bs was used to get into the Trump campaign - Comey and Brennan's expressed hostility to Trump
    The author is Jennifer Granick, an distinguish lawyer and teacher at Sanford Law School who is famous for her involvement in Constitutional cases. She also contributing to "the Hill," a nonpartisan sight that if anything leads slightly right

    Now, seeing you are dismissing via sources, your source is an article appearing in "the deep state," what ever the hell that is, who actually copied it from a discredited website known as "the Doran." It's author, Alexander Mercouris, is a disbarred lawyer who works for Putin (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-investigated/)

    I'll go with Ms Garland view

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    you do that, Mueller and everything he has been doing, wasting 30 million dollars to date is about to be rendered useless

    just stay tuned
    This just In::: Trump indicted for living in liberals heads and not paying RENT

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    The author is Jennifer Granick, an distinguish lawyer and teacher at Sanford Law School who is famous for her involvement in Constitutional cases. She also contributing to "the Hill," a nonpartisan sight that if anything leads slightly right

    Now, seeing you are dismissing via sources, your source is an article appearing in "the deep state," what ever the hell that is, who actually copied it from a discredited website known as "the Doran." It's author, Alexander Mercouris, is a disbarred lawyer who works for Putin (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-investigated/)

    I'll go with Ms Garland view
    I'll go with logic. arguing sources is a fools game.
    I merlely mentioned it.

    You can address the rest of my post, which so far you have chosen not to

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