Above Plain Politics

[montgomery]

Poli and bluedream, relax. If this forum is made up of mostly childish spammers of the political right then so be it.

If this section of the forum survives then it will perhaps be at least a placee to come for decent people to find refuge from the children. And it's sure to attract some of the children if their ideology is challenged here in any case. They'll have to bitch and compain and spam within the rules for a while at least.

If any of the mods want to help out making this place work, then they will be mods who would like something beyond the childish nonsense themselves. So far I've only seen a staff member come here and aid in promoting the childish behavour by posting on a thread where two of us are banned from posting. Not helpful, but understandable if the status quo of JPP is sacred to protect and rational adult commentary is to be avoided.

I can't understand why they would want that but so be it if that's their choice.

[PoliTalker]

I object to the terms 'children' and 'adults' in this context, montgomery. We are all adults here. What you're really talking about is maturity level. Mature people are confident enough in their views to voice them without putting others down. A good argument does not depend on insulting those who disagree. Immature people think the way to drive home their view is to insult those who disagree. (Not very convincing, but they don't care.) Others simply get off on abusing others. They are frustrated because their politics does not work for them. They have to demonize and hate. Abusing someone with whom they disagree is a way to vent their frustrations over their politics not working. As if either the left or the right is ever going away or can be shut up. (Not!) They blame 'the other side' for all the nation's problems, and seek to eliminate 'the other side.' Silly! And totally unrealistic... But they keep trying.

And one may tend to believe that is all that is going on here. But that would be incorrect.

There's plenty of civil discourse at JPP. I use my own PIP to filter out incivility, and still I can't possibly keep up. There is plenty of civil discourse. More than I can keep up with.

The tools are available to customize one's own posting experience, even in the main forum.

Some people have a hang-up over using the Ignore feature. That's their problem. They just need to get over it. There's nothing wrong with judicious use of the Ignore Feature. If they can't get over the hang-up then they become plateaued. They will never rise above that level of maturity. They hold themselves back from higher thinking. Only they can change that. Others cannot do it for them.

There is also this bizarre disdain for using the Ignore Feature. Some take pride in either not using it, or only using it in a limited fashion. What's that really worth to be able to say you don't use the Ignore Feature or you 'only have x entries on Ignore?' I'll tell you what that is worth. Exactly nothing.

People who put down others for using the Ignore Feature are probably trolls who are frustrated because the Ignore Feature is so effective. The Ignore Feature ends online abuse. It takes two for abuse to occur. The abuser and the enabler. The abused must read what the abuser writes or the abuse doesn't work. Refusing to read it shuts it down. If somebody harasses you and you don't place them on Ignore, you are enabling them. You are sending the message that the abuse can continue.

APP and the Ignore Feature both accomplish the same thing. They prevent unwanted posters from harassing somebody. Two tools for essentially the same purpose.

I don't expect much out of APP. It has a stigma. People think there is something wrong with anyone who would want to post in a limited forum. They want to act 'tough.' They want to be able to 'take it' in the unrestricted forum. What does that mean? All that means is that one can immerse themselves in a discussion with the most immature people who think debating politics is all about insulting those with whom they disagree.

I'm not into insults or being mean. I see no purpose in that and few shallow rewards. I just want to talk about politics, stay informed, and learn what motivates other views. By avoiding the insults and flaming, by sticking to the point of discussions, I am able to draw out the part of people that actually does want to talk about politics. I'd love it of others maintained a minimum level of decorum, but that never happens in a wide-open forum, so they only way it can be maintained is with increased moderation activities. That's what APP demands if it is going to flourish. By using a PIP like mine, no additional moderation load is required. It's an example of self-moderation. Each poster designs their own experience.

I'm sure some people put me down for stringent use of the Ignore Feature. That's their choice. Mine is to simply not respond to them. I didn't come here to talk about how to post. I came here to talk about politics. The site is wide open enough to allow me to do that in my own way. If others agree and want to do it in a similar fashion, wonderful. If not, wonderful. I don't really have to care. I get what I come for. And that's why any of us stays and makes the place what it is. We get what we came for. People simply come here for different reasons and it shows. I contribute in my own way, just as everyone else does. Together, we make JPP what it is.

[montgomery]

I object to the terms 'children' and 'adults' in this context, montgomery. We are all adults here. What you're really talking about is maturity level. Mature people are confident enough in their views to voice them without putting others down. A good argument does not depend on insulting those who disagree. Immature people think the way to drive home their view is to insult those who disagree. (Not very convincing, but they don't care.) Others simply get off on abusing others. They are frustrated because their politics does not work for them. They have to demonize and hate. Abusing someone with whom they disagree is a way to vent their frustrations over their politics not working. As if either the left or the right is ever going away or can be shut up. (Not!) They blame 'the other side' for all the nation's problems, and seek to eliminate 'the other side.' Silly! And totally unrealistic... But they keep trying.

And one may tend to believe that is all that is going on here. But that would be incorrect.

There's plenty of civil discourse at JPP. I use my own PIP to filter out incivility, and still I can't possibly keep up. There is plenty of civil discourse. More than I can keep up with.

The tools are available to customize one's own posting experience, even in the main forum.

Some people have a hang-up over using the Ignore feature. That's their problem. They just need to get over it. There's nothing wrong with judicious use of the Ignore Feature. If they can't get over the hang-up then they become plateaued. They will never rise above that level of maturity. They hold themselves back from higher thinking. Only they can change that. Others cannot do it for them.

There is also this bizarre disdain for using the Ignore Feature. Some take pride in either not using it, or only using it in a limited fashion. What's that really worth to be able to say you don't use the Ignore Feature or you 'only have x entries on Ignore?' I'll tell you what that is worth. Exactly nothing.

People who put down others for using the Ignore Feature are probably trolls who are frustrated because the Ignore Feature is so effective. The Ignore Feature ends online abuse. It takes two for abuse to occur. The abuser and the enabler. The abused must read what the abuser writes or the abuse doesn't work. Refusing to read it shuts it down. If somebody harasses you and you don't place them on Ignore, you are enabling them. You are sending the message that the abuse can continue.

APP and the Ignore Feature both accomplish the same thing. They prevent unwanted posters from harassing somebody. Two tools for essentially the same purpose.

I don't expect much out of APP. It has a stigma. People think there is something wrong with anyone who would want to post in a limited forum. They want to act 'tough.' They want to be able to 'take it' in the unrestricted forum. What does that mean? All that means is that one can immerse themselves in a discussion with the most immature people who think debating politics is all about insulting those with whom they disagree.

I'm not into insults or being mean. I see no purpose in that and few shallow rewards. I just want to talk about politics, stay informed, and learn what motivates other views. By avoiding the insults and flaming, by sticking to the point of discussions, I am able to draw out the part of people that actually does want to talk about politics. I'd love it of others maintained a minimum level of decorum, but that never happens in a wide-open forum, so they only way it can be maintained is with increased moderation activities. That's what APP demands if it is going to flourish. By using a PIP like mine, no additional moderation load is required. It's an example of self-moderation. Each poster designs their own experience.

I'm sure some people put me down for stringent use of the Ignore Feature. That's their choice. Mine is to simply not respond to them. I didn't come here to talk about how to post. I came here to talk about politics. The site is wide open enough to allow me to do that in my own way. If others agree and want to do it in a similar fashion, wonderful. If not, wonderful. I don't really have to care. I get what I come for. And that's why any of us stays and makes the place what it is. We get what we came for. People simply come here for different reasons and it shows. I contribute in my own way, just as everyone else does. Together, we make JPP what it is.

I hear you again! I don't want to make friends with the lowlife and discuss issues with them. I simply don't view them as being suitable for taking part in any discussion. Do you? People who are proud racists and proud haters and evil enough to make it publicly known that they are the kind of trash that shouldn't even be allowed to walk the streets!

You can't make silk purses out of that kind of sows' ears.

I can't give you names but I will in a private message if you're at any loss of being unable to name them yourself. If you want to try to carry on a conversation with that kind of pigs, then help yourself.

Otherwise, we're winning on this section and there's nothing they can do about it. Positive thinking? How long before the traffic on this section is equal to the traffic on the other part?

Do your best, as I will too, even though I think that there's a pretty lively effort by the staff to uphold the status quo. We're going to get around to talking about that too before long. I've already sent out the challenge to them. One thing though that's worth mentioning between you and me. I don't do temporary bans. They're permanent for me always. That's just my demands of calling a spade a spade. This initiative here on this section is going to fail to work over my 'dead' body. -figuratively speaking of course.

[PoliTalker]

Hello montgomery,

I hear you again! I don't want to make friends with the lowlife and discuss issues with them. I simply don't view them as being suitable for taking part in any discussion. Do you? People who are proud racists and proud haters and evil enough to make it publicly known that they are the kind of trash that shouldn't even be allowed to walk the streets!

You can't make silk purses out of that kind of sows' ears.

I can't give you names but I will in a private message if you're at any loss of being unable to name them yourself. If you want to try to carry on a conversation with that kind of pigs, then help yourself.

Otherwise, we're winning on this section and there's nothing they can do about it. Positive thinking? How long before the traffic on this section is equal to the traffic on the other part?

Do your best, as I will too, even though I think that there's a pretty lively effort by the staff to uphold the status quo. We're going to get around to talking about that too before long. I've already sent out the challenge to them. One thing though that's worth mentioning between you and me. I don't do temporary bans. They're permanent for me always. That's just my demands of calling a spade a spade. This initiative here on this section is going to fail to work over my 'dead' body. -figuratively speaking of course.

OK, I'm confused. For someone who wants civil discourse you seem to have an edge, some pent up anger.

I don't think this APP section can work on a grand scale. I don't see how it's possible. If it got popular it would require more active moderation at the site. Who is going to do that? More mods would have to come on board to make APP as popular as the rest. I just don't see that happening. I could be wrong. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. I'll post here, see where it goes.

I can understand some trepidation on the part of the staff to watch the demands for active moderation go up.

I don't see why you're so dead set to make this section work. I have zero problem with abuse in the other forums. Anybody messes with me, they go poof, and they don't do it again. I am totally unconcerned with missing anything they have to say. I already know what motivates their view. Hatred. They made that clear. So I decide I just want distance between us. I don't want to be around hatred. There's plenty of other very interesting people to talk to who don't have to flame on me. This works extremely well.

You're not going to force anybody to be nice with forum rules. If they break the rules they will not be allowed in there. You won't be seeing their posts. That's the same thing as having them on Ignore. So why rag on the mods or the rules and try to change things? There's a perfectly workable solution already right there a few clicks away. You wanna see my Ignore List? Check any of my Threads in the other sections. Look at the thread ban list. That was built one entry at a time. Start your own. Before long nobody is pestering you. Piece of cake. Go ahead steal my PIP. I think it makes so much sense I don't understand why everybody doesn't do it.

I know people have to be themselves, make their own choices. That's fine. Why try to make a forum section that requires no flaming more popular on a site where the big draw for most (who stay) is flaming? Especially when it is going to generate more work for somebody and we don't know who is going to do that, but we do know it won't happen by itself.

[montgomery]

OK, I'm confused. For someone who wants civil discourse you seem to have an edge, some pent up anger.

Of course I do! I'm a normal human being who sees evil in racists and social scum of the sort that frequent this forum. Maybe it's me that should be wondering why you turn the other cheek with them. Just because they're your fellow Americans is no reason to consider them human!

That's my edge! My pent up anger if you like.

Especially when it is going to generate more work for somebody and we don't know who is going to do that, but we do know it won't happen by itself.

Phtttt! if they don't want to do the work they can avoid it or pass it on to somebody who will. I would be a mod but I wouldn't work out on this forum, I would just end up banning the schlunks for life.

Poli, the sickness that has inflicted Americans is not mine or the rest of the world's. YOu need to start thinking in terms of equating America to the Nazi regime of the 30's on the rise. Seriously, Trump is not nearly of as sound mind than Hitler was when he appealed to the people based on their lowest aspirations. And the American people are much less intelligent and much more susceptible to picking up their guns and resorting to violence.

You've got a real problem Poli. Consider escape to Canada. None of this can end well!

[Evmetro]

I am interested in seeing how things work out here. Montgomery has put efforts into getting more members to come here, so I'll give it a try.

[PoliTalker]

Hello montgomery,

Of course I do! I'm a normal human being who sees evil in racists and social scum of the sort that frequent this forum. Maybe it's me that should be wondering why you turn the other cheek with them. Just because they're your fellow Americans is no reason to consider them human!

That is exactly what they are, technically.

That's my edge! My pent up anger if you like.

It's a big wide world, full of all types. These attitudes are bound to exist. The way to counter that is with the truth.

Phtttt! if they [tmods] don't want to do the work they can avoid it or pass it on to somebody who will. I would be a mod but I wouldn't work out on this forum, I would just end up banning the schlunks for life.

Well, that's just not very realistic. It doesn't solve the problem of who is going to do all this active moderation to police APP on amped up volume.

Poli, the sickness that has inflicted Americans is not mine or the rest of the world's. YOu need to start thinking in terms of equating America to the Nazi regime of the 30's on the rise. Seriously, Trump is not nearly of as sound mind than Hitler was when he appealed to the people based on their lowest aspirations.

OK, now you're just using the nuclear option to generate more comments. President Trump is not on a conquest of the world. He's just incredibly greedy and egotistical. We've all gotten to know him pretty well by now.

And the American people are much less intelligent and much more susceptible to picking up their guns and resorting to violence.

Now you're making a really big mistake. True there are some American gun nuts, and hate groups and all kinds of anti-social groups. That does not typify Americans. Most of us are a peaceful sort. We really just want to live and let live. It's our leaders who tend to be more antagonistic and stir up wars.

You've got a real problem Poli. Consider escape to Canada. None of this can end well!

LOL. I'll keep that in mind. I like your health care system. But I don't see me dropping my loyalty to the USA any time soon just because we've got a few bad apples. We just need to sort out the good from the bad, pick up the pieces and move on. We will get rid of President Trump soon enough, one way or another. I don't see him getting re-elected unless the Dems somehow split, or they force another super unpopular candidate to the top with a lot of baggage. Hopefully they have learned that doesn't work. They need another hope and change guy with charisma. Like Obama. Another new star. Maybe Castro. Who knows?

Hey. I modified my PIP just for you. I realized it might be a good thing to invite people to adopt a similar policy of their own. So I freely invite anyone to steal my PIP.

"Personal Ignore Policy PIP: Very simple. I am into civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Flame on me, mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you go on my Ignore List. Zero tolerance. PERMANENT. Forever. No exceptions ever. And you will be banned from any Thread I create. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: if you like my PIP, feel free to steal it. It works well."

[canceled.2021.1]

I'd love to see more of what you are looking for HERE...

...out in the non-cyber world.

HERE...I am looking for the rough and tumble.

Good luck with APP. My guess is the efforts will go nowhere. Most of the people HERE are HERE for the rough and tumble. The last thing in the world most want to do...is to be courteous and kind.

For the first time since you joined this forum, you are correct about something

[montgomery]

I am interested in seeing how things work out here. Montgomery has put efforts into getting more members to come here, so I'll give it a try.

Thanks Evmetro! Actually it wasn't hard at all. It's just a place to come to in order to avoid the bad people who are only interested in spamming and frothing at the mouth about everything. Mostly they just want to scream about how the worship Trump.

I'll be vigilant in keeping an eye on them so they can't spoil this section too.

And remember, if you want to wrestle in the mud with them, they'll always be there on the main section. They'll always love the mud wrestling because it causes others to get muddy and dirty too!

[montgomery]

For the first time since you joined this forum, you are correct about something

And thank you too for coming to 'my' section of the forum and stating your position in a decent way! (even though it was a jaded insult)

[countryboy]

Thanks Evmetro! Actually it wasn't hard at all. It's just a place to come to in order to avoid the bad people who are only interested in spamming and frothing at the mouth about everything. Mostly they just want to scream about how the worship Trump.

I'll be vigilant in keeping an eye on them so they can't spoil this section too.

And remember, if you want to wrestle in the mud with them, they'll always be there on the main section. They'll always love the mud wrestling because it causes others to get muddy and dirty too!

And this is what you consider to be civil discourse? You and PoliTalker should have a good echo chamber, since it appears that's all you're interested in. She considers that kind of "talk", to be civil discourse as well, but if you repeat it back to her, she'll put you on her ignore list.

[montgomery]

And this is what you consider to be civil discourse? You and PoliTalker should have a good echo chamber, since it appears that's all you're interested in. She considers that kind of "talk", to be civil discourse as well, but if you repeat it back to her, she'll put you on her ignore list.

Your views are welcome here too as long as you can adhere to the rules. And you're obviously welcome to criticize my generic statements that were addressed to nobody in particular.

As to what you're on about with her 'ignore list'? I don't know and I'm not really interested. If you have something insulting to say to me, do so on the other section please.

[montgomery]

Hello montgomery,



That is exactly what they are, technically.



It's a big wide world, full of all types. These attitudes are bound to exist. The way to counter that is with the truth.



Well, that's just not very realistic. It doesn't solve the problem of who is going to do all this active moderation to police APP on amped up volume.



OK, now you're just using the nuclear option to generate more comments. President Trump is not on a conquest of the world. He's just incredibly greedy and egotistical. We've all gotten to know him pretty well by now.



Now you're making a really big mistake. True there are some American gun nuts, and hate groups and all kinds of anti-social groups. That does not typify Americans. Most of us are a peaceful sort. We really just want to live and let live. It's our leaders who tend to be more antagonistic and stir up wars.



LOL. I'll keep that in mind. I like your health care system. But I don't see me dropping my loyalty to the USA any time soon just because we've got a few bad apples. We just need to sort out the good from the bad, pick up the pieces and move on. We will get rid of President Trump soon enough, one way or another. I don't see him getting re-elected unless the Dems somehow split, or they force another super unpopular candidate to the top with a lot of baggage. Hopefully they have learned that doesn't work. They need another hope and change guy with charisma. Like Obama. Another new star. Maybe Castro. Who knows?

Hey. I modified my PIP just for you. I realized it might be a good thing to invite people to adopt a similar policy of their own. So I freely invite anyone to steal my PIP.

"Personal Ignore Policy PIP: Very simple. I am into civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Flame on me, mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you go on my Ignore List. Zero tolerance. PERMANENT. Forever. No exceptions ever. And you will be banned from any Thread I create. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: if you like my PIP, feel free to steal it. It works well."

Don't worry so much about 'who' is going to do the moderating. I suspect that there will be very little to do as that section grows.

[montgomery]

I am interested in seeing how things work out here. Montgomery has put efforts into getting more members to come here, so I'll give it a try.

What's your issue? What's your beef? What's your boquet? It's asking for you to put it up as a thread and get some decent and reasonable replies to your ideas. The section has been created for that purpose and now we have enough traffic to make it work!

And make no mistake, the crazies are going to have to behave and if they don't then the moderators are going to be called in.

[canceled.2021.1]

And thank you too for coming to 'my' section of the forum and stating your position in a decent way! (even though it was a jaded insult)

Let’s be clear. This isn’t “your” section

I have been posting here for longer than you have been on the board

Although my reasons are my own