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Thread: Liberal School Administrators Ban Jesus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    The "Separation" clause of the US constitution, restricts government from supporting a certain religion, it also prevents government form letting people practice thiers. So the school cannot put on a religious show, but individuals attending that school can sing religious songs if they choose. Thats the reality of this topic.


    My point was people seem to be all up in arms about this, support prayer rooms for muslims in public schools. or at least did at one time.
    There is no such thing as a Separation Clause, the framers simply did not want Government infringing on peoples rights to worship whatever God they desired, it is not a way to shut down religion in any way just a way to keep Government out of religion. It has nothing to do with keeping religion from anywhere, it's amazing that this issue has come up in the last 20 years, before the liberal mindset of taking God out of every public forum took hold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Singing Christmas songs is not indoctrination. Exposing people to people, cultures and customs different from their own is the hallmark of education. Having to learn and sing Frere Jacques didn't magically make me French.
    They were very careful utterly to ban things like Internationale, however, just in case someone woke up, let along good old American songs like 'There'll be pie in the sky when you die'. I expect they were sure there won't be!

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    The latest? Principal bans candy canes....because the J is for Jesus.... (she's been given a "vacation"*‘

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    Quote Originally Posted by iolo View Post
    They were very careful utterly to ban things like Internationale, however, just in case someone woke up, let along good old American songs like 'There'll be pie in the sky when you die'. I expect they were sure there won't be!
    I have never heard of the good old song you mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    You are incorrect
    Because you say so? Nope.

    I think your religion should be in the closet so children won't be exposed to the dangers of religion.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    PTSD Jesus may sound good in theory, but my guess is he would come back like a boss because that is what being a deity is all about.
    Come back like a boss by kicking the money exchangers out of the temple? Who are the money exchangers in today's world? The same Wall Street banksters you defend. So if Jesus did come back to earth, why do you think he'd support any of the shit you believe?
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by TOP View Post
    but the songs you listed are an issue for some....they contain the word Christmas, after all
    I suppose that --the US being such a huge country and human variety being what it is-- there must be some out there who object to any mention of Christmas in holiday songs. But that's not what this particular objection was about. It was specifically about a song "of a sacred nature" that mentions Jesus.

    As an exercise in empathy, picture it from the perspective of, say, a Jewish kid in the chorus. Most Jewish kids aren't going to have a particular problems singing, say, "White Christmas," because even if they don't personally celebrate Christmas, the holiday has a huge secular aspect, and so it's not going to be any more troubling to sing about it than for someone who has never been on a sleigh ride to sing "Jingle Bells."

    Now compare the same Jewish kid's reaction to "O Holy Night." Now he's not just singing about a holiday he doesn't personally celebrate. He's singing about the birth of Jesus, and being asked to sing lyrics that identify Jesus as "our dear Savior." In other words, he's being asked to sing a statement of theological faith that directly contradicts the teachings of his own religion (which expressly says Jesus was not the savior). The lyrics would have him calling on listeners to fall on their knees to worship someone who, from a non-Christian theological perspective, was a false prophet.

    Or, if it's too hard to picture things from a non-Christian perspective, then instead picture if you were a Christian in a school system where the local majority was Muslim, and you were asked, in public school, to sing a song that doesn't just mention Ramadan, but specifically includes "there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger."

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    Could you please direct this to Kacper and Jimmy McChristmas.



    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    I suppose that --the US being such a huge country and human variety being what it is-- there must be some out there who object to any mention of Christmas in holiday songs. But that's not what this particular objection was about. It was specifically about a song "of a sacred nature" that mentions Jesus.

    As an exercise in empathy, picture it from the perspective of, say, a Jewish kid in the chorus. Most Jewish kids aren't going to have a particular problems singing, say, "White Christmas," because even if they don't personally celebrate Christmas, the holiday has a huge secular aspect, and so it's not going to be any more troubling to sing about it than for someone who has never been on a sleigh ride to sing "Jingle Bells."

    Now compare the same Jewish kid's reaction to "O Holy Night." Now he's not just singing about a holiday he doesn't personally celebrate. He's singing about the birth of Jesus, and being asked to sing lyrics that identify Jesus as "our dear Savior." In other words, he's being asked to sing a statement of theological faith that directly contradicts the teachings of his own religion (which expressly says Jesus was not the savior). The lyrics would have him calling on listeners to fall on their knees to worship someone who, from a non-Christian theological perspective, was a false prophet.

    Or, if it's too hard to picture things from a non-Christian perspective, then instead picture if you were a Christian in a school system where the local majority was Muslim, and you were asked, in public school, to sing a song that doesn't just mention Ramadan, but specifically includes "there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
    There is no such thing as a Separation Clause, the framers simply did not want Government infringing on peoples rights to worship whatever God they desired, it is not a way to shut down religion in any way just a way to keep Government out of religion. It has nothing to do with keeping religion from anywhere, it's amazing that this issue has come up in the last 20 years, before the liberal mindset of taking God out of every public forum took hold.
    State-sanctioned prayer in public schools

    Earl Warren was Chief Justice when Engel v. Vitale was decided.
    Further important decisions came in the 1960s, during the Warren Court era. One of the Court's most controversial decisions came in Engel v. Vitale in 1962. The case involved the mandatory daily recitation by public school officials of a prayer written by the New York Board of Regents, which read "Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our Country". The Supreme Court deemed it unconstitutional and struck it down, with Justice Black writing "it is no part of the official business of government to compose official prayers for any group of American people to recite as part of a religious program carried out by the Government." The reading of the Lord's Prayer or of the Bible in the classroom of a public school by the teacher was ruled unconstitutional in 1963. The ruling did not apply to parochial or private schools in general. The decision has been met with both criticism and praise. Many social conservatives are critical of the court's reasoning, including the late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist. Conversely, the ACLU and other civil libertarian groups hailed the court's decision.

    In Abington Township v. Schempp (1963), the case involving the mandatory reading of the Lord's Prayer in class, the Supreme Court introduced the "secular purpose" and "primary effect" tests, which were to be used to determine compatibility with the establishment clause. Essentially, the law in question must have a valid secular purpose, and its primary effect must not be to promote or inhibit a particular religion. Since the law requiring the recital of the Lord's Prayer violated these tests, it was struck down. The "excessive entanglement" test was added in Lemon v. Kurtzman (vide supra).

    In Wallace v. Jaffree (1985), the Supreme Court struck down an Alabama law whereby students in public schools would observe daily a period of silence for the purpose of private prayer. The Court did not, however, find that the moment of silence was itself unconstitutional. Rather, it ruled that Alabama lawmakers had passed the statute solely to advance religion, thereby violating the secular purpose test.

    The 1990s were marked by controversies surrounding religion's role in public affairs. In Lee v. Weisman (1992), the Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional the offering of prayers by religious officials before voluntarily attending ceremonies such as graduation. Thus, the Court established that the state could not conduct religious exercises at public occasions even if attendance was not strictly compulsory. In Lee the Court developed the coercion test. Under this test the government does not violate the establishment clause unless it (1) provides direct aid to religion in a way that would tend to establish a state church, or (2) coerces people to support or participate in religion against their will. In Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe (2000), the Court ruled that a vote of the student body could not authorize student-led prayer prior to school events.

    In 2002, controversy centered on a ruling by the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow (2002), which struck down a California law providing for the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance (which includes the phrase "under God") in classrooms. Each House of Congress passed resolutions reaffirming their support for the pledge; the Senate vote was 99–0 and the House vote was 416–3. The Supreme Court heard arguments on the case, but did not rule on the merits, instead reversing the Ninth Circuit's decision on standing grounds.
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Where are all of your posts admonishing Obama for not fulfilling his promise of a $2,500 savings on health care premiums
    Because he never said that.

    What he said was that because of the subsidies, some families would save an average of $2,500 out of pocket. And that was entirely true and best exemplified by the case of Julie Boonstra.

    Do you know who Julie Boonstra is? Let me refresh your memory; Julie Boonstra was the fat, ugly, diseased GOP sow who starred in a Koch brothers-produced ad in 2012 where she claimed that Obamacare caused her insurance costs to rise. Guess what? SHE WAS FUCKING LYING OF COURSE. Not only did her insurance costs not increase, but they actually decreased by $2,400 - which was pretyt much the exact amount Obama said her costs would be reduced. When confronted with these facts, confirmed by her insurance company, what was her response?

    "I choose to not believe that".

    So she literally is refusing to accept that Obamacare reduced her costs, as her insurance company confirmed.

    So that's why I don't believe any of the shit you people claim about yourselves. You practice itjihad, which is where you deliberately lie to your enemies in order to advance your own narrow goals.

    What a bunch of fucking frauds.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    Come back like a boss by kicking the money exchangers out of the temple? Who are the money exchangers in today's world? The same Wall Street banksters you defend. So if Jesus did come back to earth, why do you think he'd support any of the shit you believe?
    Not exactly.. Jews couldn't use Roman coin to buy sacrificial animals.. The money had to be changed to shekels and the money changers took a fee. It was a racket.
    He who is the author of a war lets loose the whole contagion of hell and opens a vein that bleeds a nation to death. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
    Yes God gives you the choice whether to believe or not, pretty awesome considering he sent his Son to die for that Choice
    Why would a being so insecure that it demands people worship it, give a choice to not believe in it?

    That makes no sense, like pretty much everything you post.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
    Those men all have one thing in common they were pedophiles, who were probably abused themselves, it is a nasty cycle. I am not Catholic so this particular argument would not apply to me.
    It's not just Catholics who abuse children in the church. It's a pattern among all religious people.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by TOP View Post
    The latest? Principal bans candy canes....because the J is for Jesus.... (she's been given a "vacation"*‘
    Sounds like another Russian propaganda attempt, like #Walkaway.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    Come back like a boss by kicking the money exchangers out of the temple? Who are the money exchangers in today's world? The same Wall Street banksters you defend. So if Jesus did come back to earth, why do you think he'd support any of the shit you believe?
    Because everybody gets a do-over according to the Bible. I don't need to be biblical in this life.

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