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Thread: Does the American Flag Offend You? Stanford Thinks It Might

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedream View Post
    your stance is very different than feeling the american flag should be put away and never displayed and that it's offensive.
    Well duh. Don’t be a dupe Grind. This is a one sided man bites dog sensationalist story. For example who is mister z and what is his and Stanford’s side of the story?

    You want to read between the lines? I’m aware of I Felta Thigh’s reputation. I’m also quite aware what complete assholes frat boys can be on campus and how often and how seriously you have fuck up to have your fraternity decertified.

    So in this context it reads like a sour grapes hit piece for a group of disgruntled frat boys who fucked up one time to many and got decertified.
    Last edited by Mott the Hoople; 12-08-2018 at 08:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Well duh. Don’t be a dupe Grind. This is a one sided man bites dog sensationalist story. For example who is mister z and what is his and Stanford’s side of the story?

    You want to read between the lines? I’m aware of I Felta Thigh’s reputation. I’m also quite aware what complete assholes frat boys can be on campus and how often and how seriously you have fuck up to have your fraternity decertified.

    So in this context it reads like a sour grapes hit piece for a group of disgruntled frat boys who fucked up one time to many and got decertified.
    in todays climate things are different mott. frats get shut down much more easily. harvard banned gender segregated clubs altogether. stop being so contrarion, this specific guy banned a frat because of the american flag.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Stanford asked Sigma Chi to take down their American flag in front of their house to improve their imagine. Sigma Chi did take it down, then put up a bigger one. Well done Sigma Chi!




    Does the American Flag Offend You? Stanford Thinks It Might

    TLDR: An administrator encouraged Sigma Chi to take down the American flag flown in front of its house in order to improve its image on campus.

    Let me explain. We all know the fate of Sigma Chi: it no longer exists. As is the experience of many Stanford Greek organizations past, while on probation last year, Sigma Chi sought to improve its image with the university so as to ensure its survival and the eventual lifting of its probation. Obviously, this aim was not realized. Sigma Chi is gone. Nevertheless, some administrative advice extended to Sigma Chi during this effort is worth noting, even after the fact, for its anti-Americanism.

    Pablo Lozano ’18 is the primary source for the following account. Other individuals, who asked not to be named, have corroborated it.

    Lozano told that while on probation, Sigma Chi sought to make itself “an ally of the university.” An administrator assigned to serve as a liaison between Residential Education and Sigma Chi – let’s call him Mr. Z – was, in Lozano’s words, “supportive” in trying to help Sigma Chi outlast probation and “transparent” in explaining often obscure bureaucratic processes. The Sigma Chi brothers appreciated the candid and genuine guidance that Mr. Z offered them throughout their fight for survival.

    This context of a friendly relationship with Mr. Z made the following incident all the more surprising. One night during Autumn 2017, Lozano recounted, Mr. Z was invited to eat dinner at Sigma Chi. While discussing improving the fraternity’s image with the university, Mr. Z offhandedly suggested that Sigma Chi remove the potentially discomforting symbol outside: the American flag flown in front of the house. Mr. Z urged Sigma Chi to consider the image being presented to the rest of campus by flying the flag out front. He furthered that if Sigma Chi wished to break away from stereotypes that plagued the house and to change its perception on campus, its members should contemplate un-hoisting the American flag.

    While this remark was just one in a larger discussion on rebranding the house, it stands out. Mr. Z’s recommendation insinuated not only that the flag made others uncomfortable but that its being flown tainted Sigma Chi’s reputation and, presumably, worsened its chance of survival. Lozano understood Mr. Z to imply that the American flag, as a symbol, could be intimidating, aggressive or alienating. Mr. Z’s tone further signaled to Lozano that he found the mere sight of the American flag to be offensive.

    Lozano recounted that the more the house talked about Mr. Z’s suggestion, the more it bothered them. Many found the proposal weird. The remark was, according to Lozano, out of the blue and incongruent with the candid rapport they had shared with Mr. Z up and until then. Furthermore, they wondered, since when is an American flag flown at an institution in the United States offensive? Lozano later observed that right down the road from Sigma Chi, an American flag is flown outside Stanford’s Post Office. Similarly, he noted, an American flag is flown outside Green Library’s Bing Wing and was once flown outside Memorial Auditorium, which commemorates fallen Stanford soldiers from WWI onward. According to Lozano’s knowledge, Mr. Z raised no objections to the Dominican flag flown by a student from his bedroom window in Sigma Chi or to the Palestinian flag which was hung across the street at Columbae.

    In protest of Mr. Z’s suggestion, the house declined to remove the flag, instead choosing to replace it with an even bigger one. Some members, of course, abstained from the discussion about and decision to purchase a bigger flag. The following day, by Lozano’s doing, Sigma Chi upgraded from a three-by-five-foot flag to a four-by-six-foot flag. The former flag was then framed and placed on display inside the house. This decision was, in Lozano’s words, a “silent but visible protest” against the classification of the American flag as a potentially stigmatizing symbol by a member of the Stanford administration.

    Having laid out Lozano’s narrative of this incident, I will now offer my own commentary.

    This series of events, known to few, is concerning on multiple levels. One can imagine a justification for opposing a foreign flag being flown on one’s own soil, though I believe that such a condemnation would be ultra-nationalist and antagonistic. One could also reasonably consider the display of an authoritarian regime’s flag to be insulting and hostile – be it a flag representing Nazi Germany, The Confederacy, or Apartheid South Africa. One can likewise anticipate the classification of a sectarian flag as illegal – be it that of Catalonian or Chechen separatists. However, there is no reason why hoisting the American flag, on American soil, at an American institution, is offensive.

    Every individual – American or not – has a right to take issue with any and all policies and actions that the U.S. government takes. I am not discouraging criticism of, protest against, or opposition to U.S. government policies. In fact, I encourage such scrutiny. To classify the American flag on American soil as offensive or jingoistic, however, is an entirely separate phenomenon which implies the condemnation of the United States at large.

    There is an evident aversion amongst private institutions in the Bay Area to affiliate or partner with the American government. Be it Google employees protesting collaboration with the military on AI development, the absence of the national anthem at Stanford’s 2018 graduation ceremony, the elimination of the American flag from student organization logos, or Stanford’s framing itself as a global rather than American institution, the pattern is clear. Affiliation or partnership with the U.S. government is neither popular nor sexy. Patriotism in the Bay is not praised; indeed, at this rate of pariah-hood, it may soon perish.

    However, the presently taboo nature of national pride is shortsighted. The distinction between our timeless political institutions (and their hallowed symbols) and the country’s leaders and policies at any given moment in history is elementary but crucial. Condemnations of patriotism fail to recognize that the United States’ institutions have and will continue to outlive unpopular leaders. This fact alone is cause for significant national pride. The vilification of our nation and its symbols is damning for the social fabric of American society. The current political climate has destroyed the last remnants of civic unity and patriotism.

    But enough with the ominous platitudes. Next time you hear someone degrade a symbol of the United States – whether in the form of a flag, the Constitution, or the national anthem – you can defend the principles of this nation through oration or just go out and, like Sigma Chi, buy a bigger one.


    https://stanfordreview.org/does-the-...inks-it-might/
    Self-righteous garbage. Fuck America, the fascist empire of totalitarian rightism.
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedream View Post
    your stance is very different than feeling the american flag should be put away and never displayed and that it's offensive.
    The American flag is a hate symbol, after Trump it should be put in the same camp as the Confederate flag and Swastika IMO. America is a nation of totalitarian rightism that wants to force the entire world to bow to white supremacy and extrmist rightism. No one is allowed the will to freedom in the anti-democratic American fascist empire. Lead by an unelected totalitarian white supremacist despite, massacring migrants just because of the color of their skin, it is a blight on the face of freedom worldwide.
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    Quote Originally Posted by You thought it was View Post
    Self-righteous garbage. Fuck America, the fascist empire of totalitarian rightism.
    Didn't get into a house either did you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by You thought it was View Post
    The American flag is a hate symbol, after Trump it should be put in the same camp as the Confederate flag and Swastika IMO. America is a nation of totalitarian rightism that wants to force the entire world to bow to white supremacy and extrmist rightism. No one is allowed the will to freedom in the anti-democratic American fascist empire. Lead by an unelected totalitarian white supremacist despite, massacring migrants just because of the color of their skin, it is a blight on the face of freedom worldwide.
    if i hadn't already known you for 15 years, i'd probably hate you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedream View Post
    in todays climate things are different mott. frats get shut down much more easily. harvard banned gender segregated clubs altogether. stop being so contrarion, this specific guy banned a frat because of the american flag.
    Yea, yea, yea man bites dog.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedream View Post
    in todays climate things are different mott. frats get shut down much more easily. harvard banned gender segregated clubs altogether. stop being so contrarion, this specific guy banned a frat because of the american flag.
    I agree with Mott that this is not about the flag but you're mostly right. Universities in America are implementing behavioral codes based upon decidedly progressive political and social principles and on campus there is only one group equipped to fight them and that's the Greek system. Some houses go along with it and some don't and the ones that don't get the banhammer.
    Don't be afraid to see what you see

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Wait a second.Wait a second. How did you go from “A” administrator to all of Stanford?

    Nice rhetorical trick Wacko but did you think we wouldn’t notice the switch from a man bites dog incident to a glittering generality?

    Look I’ll do something by talking about our flag. Its presence will never offend me. Its presence however can be made annoying by hyper emotional nationalist. I could care less about whether or not a person adorns their home or person with our to prove their patriotism. That’s all well and fine but some of those who adorn them selves or their property with our flag would be far better off focusing to be an adornment to our flag and not the other way around.

    So ok wave your flag and wear it proudly and good for you but big whoop. I’d rather better myself as an American and adorn my flag than adorn myself with it.
    Progressives: Don't like the flag
    Conservatives: Do like the flag

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    The flag isn't for vets, retard.
    Even if it were we'd still have serious disagreements.
    Don't be afraid to see what you see

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    Progressives: Don't like the flag
    Conservatives: Do like the flag
    3D's logic. I don't like progressives so progressive don't like anything good or patriotic.

    Pretty derpy logic there 3D.

    At least Progressives don't give the Flag a bad name like right wing extremist do. And if conservatives (and I mean conservatives with a small c) were the only ones who represented our flag...it would say much for our flag anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    3D's logic. I don't like progressives so progressive don't like anything good or patriotic.

    Pretty derpy logic there 3D.

    At least Progressives don't give the Flag a bad name like right wing extremist do. And if conservatives (and I mean conservatives with a small c) were the only ones who represented our flag...it would say much for our flag anyways.
    No one likes progressives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    3D's logic. I don't like progressives so progressive don't like anything good or patriotic.

    Pretty derpy logic there 3D.

    At least Progressives don't give the Flag a bad name like right wing extremist do. And if conservatives (and I mean conservatives with a small c) were the only ones who represented our flag...it would say much for our flag anyways.
    Conservatives are the only ones who don't get offended by the flag. What will your position be when the percentage of progressives who get offended by the flag raises to an undeniable level?

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    I could care less about the flag anymore! I think our flag has been hijacked!

    As long as we have a traitor and corrupt president that stands up in front of our American flag, use it as a prop, and misrepresent the United States to ourselves and the rest of the world, the flag also starts to misrepresent us as well.

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