What is socialism?

[kudzu]

Cooperatives or employee owned companies are capitalistic--they are privately owned just as an individually owned business or a corporation run by a board of directors.

Socialism is publicly owned (government).

Socialism, by definition, is who controls the means of production and distribution.

Programs like Social Security, welfare programs, etc. are not socialistic because they do not involve the production and distribution of goods and services. Medicare is not socialist because our healthcare industry is privately owned and operated (except the VA).

An example of socialism is China in which steel production and other major industries are entirely controlled by the government or government is a major owner of the business.

Communism is a political system and capitalism and socialism are economic systems. Communism, by definition, has a socialist economic system. Being communist is not much more than having political control by the communist party and claiming to be communist.

LOLOL.. I know.. but I thank you for reinforcing what Socialism is and isn't.

[Robo]

No. That's your nation, predatory capitalism, and your Wall Street/donor/"job creator" class sticking their dick in everyone else's business and attempting to occupy the planet militarily as we economically cannibalize the world and our own people at home. Eisenhower warned us about this ages ago.

Then you contend that Nordic Nation's taxes are low/lower than America's and they totally supply their own national defense system and have no reliance on America's military, right?

If you paid attention you'd know I never, ever promote or defend America's bloated corrupt Military Industrial Complex. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist and pour billions into defending Europe while Europe spends their treasuries on Socialist programs.

[Robo]

We don't have to reinvent the wheel.. Australia has an excellent healthcare system.

What's Australia's population relative to America's population? What % of Australia's GDP is spent on national defense? How many Australians are severely wounded veterans? What makes Australia's healthcare so "excellent?" What's Australian's average tax rate and how long are the wait times for healthcare in Australia? Why is Australia's healthcare a perfect model for America? I need convincing!

[kudzu]

What's Australia's population relative to America's population? What % of Australia's GDP is spent on national defense? How many Australians are severely wounded veterans? What makes Australia's healthcare so "excellent?" What's Australian's average tax rate and how long are the wait times for healthcare in Australia? Why is Australia's healthcare a perfect model for America? I need convincing!

Doesn't matter.. They also have issues with distances and unavailability of services at distance from major cities and towns.. Australians LOVE their healthcare and would fight you to keep it. You must think Americans are too stupid to pull it off.

[kudzu]

Then you contend that Nordic Nation's taxes are low/lower than America's and they totally supply their own national defense system and have no reliance on America's military, right?

If you paid attention you'd know I never, ever promote or defend America's bloated corrupt Military Industrial Complex. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist and pour billions into defending Europe while Europe spends their treasuries on Socialist programs.

Maybe they are smarter.

[Robo]

Cooperatives or employee owned companies are capitalistic--they are privately owned just as an individually owned business or a corporation run by a board of directors. Socialism is publicly owned (government).

So then by your own definitions, publically traded businesses on the markets are “publically owned” and thereby according to you “SOCIALISM,” right?

I disagree! The only part you have right is the fact “The People,” i.e. “The Public, are actually “The Government” i.e. “A government of and by the people.” The companies themselves are not social-“ism.” Social-“ism,” is simply an ideology. They’re simply publically owned operations under the control of a government “ideology” of “socialism.” The people/government own the means of production and distribution. That’s what socialism does.

A capitalist business is solely owned by an individual or individuals citizen or citizens not traded at a “public” market place. Even a “mostly” capitalist company governed by government regulations is controlled by “the IDEOLOGY” of socialism and thereby in a sense owned by the government who actually controls its production and distribution to a “DEGREE.”

Socialism just like capitalism are ideologies. Each play a roll of some degree in virtually every nation on earth.

[kudzu]

So then by your own definitions, publically traded businesses on the markets are “publically owned” and thereby according to you “SOCIALISM,” right?

I disagree! The only part you have right is the fact “The People,” i.e. “The Public, are actually “The Government” i.e. “A government of and by the people.” The companies themselves are not social-“ism.” Social-“ism,” is simply an ideology. They’re simply publically owned operations under the control of a government “ideology” of “socialism.” The people/government own the means of production and distribution. That’s what socialism does.

A capitalist business is solely owned by an individual or individuals citizen or citizens not traded at a “public” market place. Even a “mostly” capitalist company governed by government regulations is controlled by “the IDEOLOGY” of socialism and thereby in a sense owned by the government who actually controls its production and distribution to a “DEGREE.”

Socialism just like capitalism are ideologies. Each play a roll of some degree in virtually every nation on earth.

Are you opposed the work place safety, child labor laws and environmental protections? Is that what you are referencing as "socialism"?

[Robo]

Socialism, by definition, is who controls the means of production and distribution. Programs like Social Security, welfare programs, etc. are not socialistic because they do not involve the production and distribution of goods and services. Medicare is not socialist because our healthcare industry is privately owned and operated (except the VA).

Then your argument is that government doesn’t own Social Security, Welfare Programs, etc, because they “DON’T” involve the production and distribution of the money that they survive on, right? Government “Doesn’t” decide who gets Socialist Security and socialist welfare. Government isn’t the “controller” of those programs, right? Government “doesn’t” collect, (the means), “produce” the loot that pays the bills for those programs, right? Actually I argue that those programs in particular are next to absolute socialistic programs and that’s exactly why they call them correctly “SOCIAL” programs!

[Robo]

An example of socialism is China in which steel production and other major industries are entirely controlled by the government or government is a major owner of the business.

Ah yes, you make my argument for me, thanks friend! I quote you, “OR GOVERNMENT IS A MAJOR OWNER.,” (end quote) Seems you agree that socialism is not determined by “IF” it’s socialism, but rather HOW MUCH socialism is involved, don’t you agree?

Communism is a political system and capitalism and socialism are economic systems. Communism, by definition, has a socialist economic system. Being communist is not much more than having political control by the communist party and claiming to be communist.

Actually, socialism, capitalism and communism are all simply “ideologies.” All government by definition is socialist “BY DEGREE.” Communism is simply socialism in it’s most absolute form. The so called “pure” socialist argue that absolute socialism, (pure socialism), is absolute democracy governing by referendums by a majority of the people, i.e. a true and perfect democracy. Think about that awhile and you’ll soon come to the conclusion it’s actually mob rule and pure insanity, if your sane.

[Robo]

Are you opposed the work place safety, child labor laws and environmental protections? Is that what you are referencing as "socialism"?

Not opposed, and YES! Again all government is socialist, collective force of law. If we believe in a constitutional rule of law, we also believe in a necessity for a "DEGREE" of socialism. The argument and question is "HOW MUCH" socialism, control, law is necessary?

[Grugore]

What is socialism?




Well, dictionary.com says,




socialism

. [soh-shuh-liz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for socialism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.




Well then that means that a “democratic government” being the representation of the “community,” or even a “dictatorship government” claiming to be the representative of the community as a whole is actually a “socialist” operation. In short, socialism by definition is “government” and government by definition is “socialism.”




Government “owns” the “means”, makes the laws, that “control” the “means” of “production” and “distribution.” Break the government’s laws regarding the means of production and you’ll very soon find out who “OWNS” the means of production, right? Examples: Pot, gambling, business and corporation regulations, “HEALTHCARE.”






OK, now that we’ve proven what socialism is, where does capitalism fit in? Well let’s see what the dictionary says “capitalism” is.




capitalism

. [kap-i-tl-iz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for capitalism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

OK then “capitalism” is actually businesses and investments who & where have by law the majority of control over the means of production and distribution as opposed to the government’s control over such.




I find it a hard press to find anyplace on the globe that Actually has such a system that can honestly be called “capitalism.” True capitalism is a myth. The majority control/ownership of, and distribution of anything and everything, everywhere is determined by the amount of freedom to own and distribute everything and anything by a socialist government.




So, capitalism in short is only determined by degree. How capitalist is your country? How much freedom, (what degree), of freedom does your government allow you and your neighbors and the leaders of industry to own and distribute what you/they produce without government interference? How socialist is the healthcare you’re getting? How much freedom of choice do you have? If your government mandates a single payer healthcare system how much freedom of choice will you have? How “SOCIALIST “ will you admit your healthcare is?

It is something that no sane person wants anything to do with. It is also something that has failed spectacularly everywhere it's been tried. Democratic believe it has done so only because THEY haven't tried it yet. They actually believe they can make it work. That is the definition of insanity.

[kudzu]

It is something that no sane person wants anything to do with. It is also something that has failed spectacularly everywhere it's been tried. Democratic believe it has done so only because THEY haven't tried it yet. They actually believe they can make it work. That is the definition of insanity.

The Scandinavian countries certainly work.. and they are clean , beautiful, happy and prosperous. Have you ever been to Norway, Denmark, Sweden etc?

[Flash]

So then by your own definitions, publically traded businesses on the markets are “publically owned” and thereby according to you “SOCIALISM,” right?

I disagree! The only part you have right is the fact “The People,” i.e. “The Public, are actually “The Government” i.e. “A government of and by the people.” The companies themselves are not social-“ism.” Social-“ism,” is simply an ideology. They’re simply publically owned operations under the control of a government “ideology” of “socialism.” The people/government own the means of production and distribution. That’s what socialism does.

A capitalist business is solely owned by an individual or individuals citizen or citizens not traded at a “public” market place. Even a “mostly” capitalist company governed by government regulations is controlled by “the IDEOLOGY” of socialism and thereby in a sense owned by the government who actually controls its production and distribution to a “DEGREE.”

Socialism just like capitalism are ideologies. Each play a roll of some degree in virtually every nation on earth.

No. Just because a business is publicly traded does not make it government because it is still privately owned. The government does not own and operate a corporation because its stock is publicly traded. Public does not necessarily mean government. Regulation is not the same as socialism because the government imposes the regulations.

[Flash]

The Scandinavian countries certainly work.. and they are clean , beautiful, happy and prosperous. Have you ever been to Norway, Denmark, Sweden etc?

An extensive welfare system is not the same as socialism. Most of those nations are primarily capitalist because most businesses are privately owned. Sweden, for example, got rich from capitalism and used a lot of that wealth for social welfare programs.

[Anarchon]

Robo:

America is the definition of big government and it's the most capitalist of all the world's capitalist countries. Be careful about starting a discussion in which the people will start thinking!

Do you know of any socialist countries to compare with the US? Any of those country's leaders to compare to America's president?

The US isn't a capitalist country. There is no free market here.