Universal Healthcare

[Robo]

1. Expansion of Medicaid is a euphemism for single-payer, once everyone is on the same program you don't need separate programs. We could still call it Medicaid of course but it would cease to exist as it does now.

How so? What changes aside from this huge expansion? All you're doing is moving the people from Medicare to Medicaid, (the worst healthcare of all) And to boot you're adding millions of other people to another "SOCIALIST" government reliance program and denying them the freedom to choose their own healthcare. Too boot all of that, it's unconstitutional! Read amendment 10 friend!

2. Remember I said do not assume anything else is happening. Collecting taxes and spending is not socialism, if it were every government ever all throughout history would be socialist.

You finally said something correct friend. Government by it's very definition everywhere is socialism and always has been. The only argument worth having is "HOW SOCIALIST" does any country need to be to remain free and guarantee individual rights?

[CFM]

No.. they do not employ the doctors anymore than insurance companies PAY them as employees.

Private delivery-single payer is not socialism.

The insurance companies already determine what they will pay for a procedure or surgery.

The ones that pay you are the ones that employ you.

Hopefully you'll get what you want and it will be so shitty you'll suffer for a long time in severe pain. You'd deserve it and I'll laugh at you the entire time.

[Lightbringer]

1) There will still be people not contributing to the system that will receive the same things as those who do. One argument by those in favor single payer is that the system we currently have involves transferring the costs from those that don't have coverage to those that do. How would that be any different?

2) Redistribution of wealth is socialism. When those taxes are taken from a group those doing the taking think have too much and used to provide things those doing the taking think have too little, that's socialism. When those receiving things funded by taxes they don't pay, that's socialism. How many of those receiving food stamps pay into the pot which funds food stamps?

1. We transfer costs right now. Ever wonder why tylenol costs what it does at the hospital?
2. I love how people keep redefining socialism to fit whatever point they're trying to make at the time. Serious question: when you say redistribution of wealth are you talking about only downward redistribution or do you have the same problem with corporate welfare and tax loopholes?

[kudzu]

What is socialized medicine?

Socialized medicine is, by definition, a health care system in which the government owns and operates health care facilities and employs the health care professionals, thus also paying for all health care services.

Examples abroad include the British National Health Service, and national health systems in countries such as Finland and Spain, but NOT including Canada’s Medicare system (which is publicly funded but which does not own all of the health facilities).

Closer to home, the*Veterans Health Administration is, as*one author points out, “actually socialized medicine, where the government owns the hospitals and employs the doctors.”

Medicare is an example of single-payer (the federal government) system, but it’s not socialized medicine because the doctors and hospitals are privately operated — the government pays them, but does not own or employ them. Medicaid is similar, in that it’s government funded, although the funding comes from both state and federal governments, rather than a single source.

Read more about*the difference between a single-payer system and socialized medicine. Learn more about the U.S. Medicare system and its history.

Source: https://www.healthinsurance.org/glos...ized-medicine/
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[Robo]

Their answer is to constantly raise taxes on someone else. I don't recall ever hearing one of them that claimed they care about those without coverage volunteering to pay the premiums on someone else's behalf. Have you?

They're misguided souls! The nation's higher learning has been infiltrated by the old communist lies, the American youth have been brainwashed by it. America's major media has also been invaded and brainwashed by the leftist criminals. America will be turned into Europe and eventually Europe and America will become communist. That's their goal. The fools that follow them will likely eventually get exactly what they deserve. the problem with that is they'll take the rest of us with them. Many days I'm happy to be 82 years old. My likelihood to escape it all is pretty good. My fears are for my children, and there's little I can do about that.

[Lightbringer]

How so? What changes aside from this huge expansion? All you're doing is moving the people from Medicare to Medicaid, (the worst healthcare of all) And to boot you're adding millions of other people to another "SOCIALIST" government reliance program and denying them the freedom to choose their own healthcare. Too boot all of that, it's unconstitutional! Read amendment 10 friend!



You finally said something correct friend. Government by it's very definition everywhere is socialism and always has been. The only argument worth having is "HOW SOCIALIST" does any country need to be to remain free and guarantee individual rights?

What do you mean by what changes? Everyone is covered, that's what changes. The Constitution argument is valid to my way of thinking but that ship has sailed and is long gone Robo. I could go on here but I have a problem with you trying to prove something is socialist by calling it socialist, that is circular reasoning.

You have seriously misunderstood what I said. You're saying that because I deny something to be true that that proves it to be true. Tighten up your game.

[kudzu]

They're misguided souls! The nation's higher learning has been infiltrated by the old communist lies, the American youth have been brainwashed by it. America's major media has also been invaded and brainwashed by the leftist criminals. America will be turned into Europe and eventually Europe and America will become communist. That's their goal. The fools that follow them will likely eventually get exactly what they deserve. the problem with that is they'll take the rest of us with them. Many days I'm happy to be 82 years old. My likelihood to escape it all is pretty good. My fears are for my children, and there's little I can do about that.

You aren't going to get this right until you realize what socialized medicine means.

Socialized medicine is a health care system in which the government owns and operates health care facilities and employs the health care professionals, thus also paying for all health care services.

[Robo]

No.. they do not employ the doctors anymore than insurance companies PAY them as employees.

The difference is friend, We can change Insurance companies or refuse to even buy insurance. That's called "FREEDOM." Thus insurance companies are our "middle man." We can't change "FEDERAL" government's without leaving the country. Thus the feds aren't our middle man. they're our dictator and they employ everybody when they take unconstitutional control over production and distribution of anything.

Private delivery-single payer is not socialism.

"Private delivery" is just the middle man, government is the employer, it controls the production and distribution and pays out the loot.

The insurance companies already determine what they will pay for a procedure or surgery.

That's "FREEDOM" friend, we can tell em to shove it! Try telling the feds to shove it.

[Robo]

You aren't going to get this right until you realize what socialized medicine means.

Socialized medicine is a health care system in which the government owns and operates health care facilities and employs the health care professionals, thus also paying for all health care services.

I've written and posted extensively here what socialism is. I haven't noticed your replies to dispute what I've posted. (see my post, ("What is socialism.")

[iolo]

I've written and posted extensively here what socialism is. I haven't noticed your replies to dispute what I've posted. (see my post, ("What is socialism.")

You haven't, of course, the faintest notion of what socialism is, because you were well-brainwashed by your masters. Except where the capitalists have been strong enough to spend the money on such brainwaswhing, capitalism can no longer exist without decent healthcare.

[Phantasmal]

I've written and posted extensively here what socialism is. I haven't noticed your replies to dispute what I've posted. (see my post, ("What is socialism.")

Socialized Democracy is different than Socialism, you need to educate yourself on the difference.

[kudzu]

The difference is friend, We can change Insurance companies or refuse to even buy insurance. That's called "FREEDOM." Thus insurance companies are our "middle man." We can't change "FEDERAL" government's without leaving the country. Thus the feds aren't our middle man. they're our dictator and they employ everybody when they take unconstitutional control over production and distribution of anything.



"Private delivery" is just the middle man, government is the employer, it controls the production and distribution and pays out the loot.



That's "FREEDOM" friend, we can tell em to shove it! Try telling the feds to shove it.

Obviously you are very attached to your error. Why don't you ASK your doctor or a hospital administrator. Even practices that are largely Medicare are not owned or employed by the government.

Besides that .. the patient doesn't order tests or procedures, medicine or surgery from a menu.. He's NOT the customer.

Libertarians are always so fuzxy.

[Lightbringer]

I've written and posted extensively here what socialism is. I haven't noticed your replies to dispute what I've posted. (see my post, ("What is socialism.")

I disputed your post this morning.

[kudzu]

Socialized Democracy is different than Socialism, you need to educate yourself on the difference.

socialized medicine Urban dictionary.

1. A derogatory term used by ignorant U.S. rightwingers to describe the forms of affordable and efficient health care practiced in Canada and many parts of Europe and elsewhere.

Originally coined in the 1950s to defeat any proposal to limit the rights of doctors and insurance and drug companies in the U.S. to profit from disease and human misery.

2. Any proposal advanced by a Democrat or anyone else on the left to improve the ruinously expensive and inefficient U.S. health care system.

1. "I don't care if people live longer and healthier lives in Canada. That shit is socialized medicine, and it takes away my right to go bankrupt and die when my insurance company pulls the plug."

2. "Hillary's health care plan was a give-away to the drug companies and the HMOs."
"I don't care. She's a Democrat, so her plan was really socialized medicine."

[Robo]

What do you mean by what changes? Everyone is covered, that's what changes.

Correct! I recognized that, i.e. quote "other than the huge expansion of Medicaid."

The Constitution argument is valid to my way of thinking but that ship has sailed and is long gone Robo.

Where in the Constitution does it say that all court decisions are chiseled in stone forever?" Actually all court decisions are subject for review and also there's Article 5. Constitutional violations can be 'amended."

I could go on here but I have a problem with you trying to prove something is socialist by calling it socialist, that is circular reasoning.

On the contrary! the dictionaries all prove my position. the dictionaries prove that socialism is "government" by definition. the only rational argument beyond that is to what degree is government socialized and or capitalized. Anything government regulates, government has taken ownership of, because government writes every law that controls the means of production and distribution of it. There are only two types of control of production and distribution, socialist and capitalist. If there are others, I'll be interested in being educated about them/it.

You have seriously misunderstood what I said. You're saying that because I deny something to be true that that proves it to be true. Tighten up your game.

Such as?