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Thread: Universal Healthcare

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Obviously you are very attached to your error. Why don't you ASK your doctor or a hospital administrator. Even practices that are largely Medicare are not owned or employed by the government.
    How about we just ask them WHO controls the production and distribution of their vocation?

    Besides that .. the patient doesn't order tests or procedures, medicine or surgery from a menu.. He's NOT the customer.

    Libertarians are always so fuzxy.
    It's kinda like going to a French restaurant, we leave the menu up to the professional with the towel over his arm with the options and recommendations, huh? If we buy our own healthcare we ARE the customer I don't want the government to be the expert with the towel and menu, that's what got us to the shitty position we're in now. Again, I'll ask you which would you rather have single payer healthcare or America's World Police Force keeping the alleged "free world" free? If you like both, present the options for affording both. Europe has already made that choice because America is their military guarantee that they can afford single payer.
    "Government is force by definition and corruption by nature. The bigger the government, the greater the force and the greater the corruption."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robo View Post
    How about we just ask them WHO controls the production and distribution of their vocation?



    It's kinda like going to a French restaurant, we leave the menu up to the professional with the towel over his arm with the options and recommendations, huh? If we buy our own healthcare we ARE the customer I don't want the government to be the expert with the towel and menu, that's what got us to the shitty position we're in now. Again, I'll ask you which would you rather have single payer healthcare or America's World Police Force keeping the alleged "free world" free? If you like both, present the options for affording both. Europe has already made that choice because America is their military guarantee that they can afford single payer.


    In the hospital the patient is NOT the customer.. The doctor is the customer.. .. unless you plan to take out your own appendix and proscribe your own drugs..

    Its not a matter of either healthcare or the military.. That's a real rightwing BS argument.

    The VA has always been an expensive mess. Sell off all VA facilities to private concerns and go to single payer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    In the hospital the patient is NOT the customer.. The doctor is the customer.. .. unless you plan to take out your own appendix and proscribe your own drugs.
    That's funny, I don't care who ya are! Actually if I'm in the hospital I am the "customer" buying a procedure. The doctor is the employee, and the government is the employer, because the government owns and operates Medicare and even rules over my private insurance plan.

    Its not a matter of either healthcare or the military.. That's a real rightwing BS argument.
    Then you're saying America can afford both, right? If that's your position, please explain in detail how, I'll wait!

    The VA has always been an expensive mess. Sell off all VA facilities to private concerns and go to single payer.
    DUH! The VA is single payer friend, why not just put everybody into the VA, that's the same as putting the VA into Medicaid and everybody else too. Figure out the cost of that either way and add it to what we spend on the Pentagon and our World Police Force and Military Industrial Complex, then get back to me. I'll wait!
    "Government is force by definition and corruption by nature. The bigger the government, the greater the force and the greater the corruption."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robo View Post
    That's funny, I don't care who ya are! Actually if I'm in the hospital I am the "customer" buying a procedure. The doctor is the employee, and the government is the employer, because the government owns and operates Medicare and even rules over my private insurance plan.



    Then you're saying America can afford both, right? If that's your position, please explain in detail how, I'll wait!



    DUH! The VA is single payer friend, why not just put everybody into the VA, that's the same as putting the VA into Medicaid and everybody else too. Figure out the cost of that either way and add it to what we spend on the Pentagon and our World Police Force and Military Industrial Complex, then get back to me. I'll wait!
    Were you an executive in the hospital business? You sure as hell don't know anything about the business if you think you are the customer. Doctors are NOT employed by the Hospital unless it is a VA hospital.

    The VA is owned outright by the government.. They own the buildings, equipment.. They employ all the doctors, nurses and staff.. VA is very poor healthcare that is far more expensive than Medicare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Were you an executive in the hospital business? You sure as hell don't know anything about the business if you think you are the customer. Doctors are NOT employed by the Hospital unless it is a VA hospital.

    The VA is owned outright by the government.. They own the buildings, equipment.. They employ all the doctors, nurses and staff.. VA is very poor healthcare that is far more expensive than Medicare.
    VA is excellent healthcare. All the Vets I know love it. They have salaried doctors so they do not get paid by the procedure and they can take time with the patients. They are not upselling to increase profits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    VA is excellent healthcare. All the Vets I know love it. They have salaried doctors so they do not get paid by the procedure and they can take time with the patients. They are not upselling to increase profits.
    One does not see them fleeing the VA into the arms of Corporationcare do we.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    VA is excellent healthcare. All the Vets I know love it. They have salaried doctors so they do not get paid by the procedure and they can take time with the patients. They are not upselling to increase profits.
    Some VA hospitals are better than others.. Too many of the docs are miserable and hate it. I had 4-5 VA docs calling me every week looking to leave and wanting me to find a place for them in the private sector. Its also the MOST expensive healthcare in America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fentoine Lum View Post
    One does not see them fleeing the VA into the arms of Corporationcare do we.
    They generally are considered poor docs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    In the hospital the patient is NOT the customer.. The doctor is the customer.. .. unless you plan to take out your own appendix and proscribe your own drugs..

    Its not a matter of either healthcare or the military.. That's a real rightwing BS argument.

    The VA has always been an expensive mess. Sell off all VA facilities to private concerns and go to single payer.
    Single payer is the current fight. End the war machine, single payer, deal with the environment/climate.

    Failure to deal with the latter will make everything else irrelevant, and you will see the reality within anyone in their 30's-40's lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    They generally are considered poor docs.
    If you're arguing for single payer, I'm going to ignore this side road argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
    Some VA hospitals are better than others.. Too many of the docs are miserable and hate it. I had 4-5 VA docs calling me every week looking to leave and wanting me to find a place for them in the private sector. Its also the MOST expensive healthcare in America.
    If we had universal healthcare we would not need the VA. That money would go to universal. Yeah, taking time to treat patients like people is more expensive but I doubt more than emergency care. Of course, the VA has many serious injuries to deal with. Prosthetics and serious body harm is tougher than treating the flu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fentoine Lum View Post
    If you're arguing for single payer, I'm going to ignore this side road argument.
    I did strategic planning and developed practices. Single payer is a good idea.. its already proven to work and be cost effective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    If we had universal healthcare we would not need the VA. That money would go to universal. Yeah, taking time to treat patients like people is more expensive but I doubt more than emergency care. Of course, the VA has many serious injuries to deal with. Prosthetics and serious body harm is tougher than treating the flu.
    True.. we wouldn't need to VA. For profit and not for profit hospitals also treat serious injuries ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robo View Post
    How about we just ask them WHO controls the production and distribution of their vocation?



    It's kinda like going to a French restaurant, we leave the menu up to the professional with the towel over his arm with the options and recommendations, huh? If we buy our own healthcare we ARE the customer I don't want the government to be the expert with the towel and menu, that's what got us to the shitty position we're in now. Again, I'll ask you which would you rather have single payer healthcare or America's World Police Force keeping the alleged "free world" free? If you like both, present the options for affording both. Europe has already made that choice because America is their military guarantee that they can afford single payer.
    What French dishes do you like?

    Sounds like if america was not attempting to militarily occupy the planet and conduct 7 hot "generational" shooting wars in majority muslim countries we could invest in our own society like sane counties do. So you're telling us that no other nation has over 800 (we're not allowed to know the real number, estimates are over 800 to over 100) military bases/installations in over at least 80 nations? Why yes, that might well indeed have something to do with our "leaders" pushing austerity for "the people" who subsidize the empire and its shot callers.

    You are not free, never have been, and healthcare is a prime example, you're a slave to access to it and the power structure is reticent to relinquish that hold on the working class and poor.

    Bring your fucking military into a defensive posture and yes, you too may get a more reasoned and reasonable society, as Eisenhower warned us of long ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granule View Post
    Hi, shitbags. Just thought you'd enjoy this steaming pile of Socialism.
    No one enjoys your steaming pile of Bullshit!

    But, it is entertaining watching you fail!


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