Ancient Civilizations of North America

[Cypress]

Ya can still go see the mounds.

I was amazed at not only how many of the constructed earthen mounds there are across the Midwest and Southeastern United States, but how a lot of them are currently located in the most inauspicious locations imaginable. Some are next to tire stores and fast food joints. One is on the campus of LSU, and students used to tailgate party on it before anyone figured out it was a constructed Indian mound.

If I am ever in that neck of the woods, my top priority in this field of study is a visit to Poverty Point in northeast Louisiana. The site is reputed to be the oldest city in North America, at 3,500 year old it predates the Mayan civilizations and ancient Greeks by a long shot, and was the largest complex constructed earthen works of the ancient world by a country mile.

[Mason Michaels]

What went on in America before the Ice Age.
And was the ice age,nuclear winter?

[Cypress]

^^No humans or hominids of any kind in the Americas prior to the ice age.

According to archeologists and geneticists, homo sapiens arrived in the Americas via a land bridge in the Bering strait about 20,000 years and either migrated down along the Pacific coast, or through the land gap between the Canadian continental ice sheet and the Rockies. DNA proves that indigenous Americans came from Siberia and have a Siberian genetic fingerprint - according to what I have heard from smarter people than me.

Now, if you ask a Republican, the above is all poppycock - and the earth in 6,000 years old and humans started with Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden.

Ice Age = Milankovitch cycles, though still ongoing research into the causes and nature of the ice age. It all reminds me, that I need to do some remedial review on human evolution and the nature of the ice ages.

The bottom line is that while Republican posters here have referred to indigenous people as savages, these native cultures were far more interesting and sophisticated that the primitive "tepee" culture we see in old movies. Carry on.

[Mott the Hoople]

I have been attempting to up my game on knowledge of first peoples of North America

-Who will not be interested in this thread: Trump voters, xenophobes, bigots, anti-immigrants, anti-Semites, and other rightwingers who would consider Native Americans to be savages and Hispanics to be "invaders from the south".

-Who may be interested in this thread: erudite people, non-Trump voters, anyone with a curiosity about North America's first nations.

Come visit me here in Columbus in the Summer time. I will take you to the Chillicothe mounds of the ancient Hopewell Culture and afterwards we can see the Alan Eckert's production of "Tecumseh" at the open air Sugarloaf Ampitheater. Time permitting we could also visit the famous Serpent Mound in Adams county just southwest of Chillicothe.



As for the Iroquis...the fact that they were "farmers" is profoundy significant. The vast majority of Native American Cultures were horticultural or hunter gatheror cultures. From an anthropological view point that the Iroquois were an agricultural society is hugely significant. They were also a very egalitarian culture as you pointed out and that the Iroquois version of Democracy was significantly more influential to our founding fathers than the Greek version. Here's another fact about the Iroquois that most people don't know. It was a matrolineal society. The men held all positions of political power but all land, material property and familial descent were controlled by the women. If a child was born, it's family name was derived from the mother and not the father. The advantage of that is that there is no such thing as an illegitimate child. If a woman was to die, all her property was inherited by her daughters. Not only did this give Iroquois women extraordinary influence for that time, they also had the franchise.

The Iroquois also ran circles around the other tribes militarily and shortly after the beginning of their confederacy they wiped out the very powerful Huron confederacy. The Iroquois League was also extremely influential in the Seven Years War in North American (known as the French and Indian war) for if the Iroquois had sided with the French during that war our entire nations history would have been unalterably changed as the British would have probably been pushed out of the North American continents and our National Language would now be French.

I'd strongly recommend reading the historical novel by Allen Eckert "The Wilderness Empire". He's not a professional historian but he writes in a manner of using narrative dialogue which obtains from both primary and secondary sources which he meticulously footnotes and a complete bibliography of sources. So if the book appeals to you can use it's bibliography to study his source material. This is a serious good read as are all of the books in Eckert's "Winning of America" series.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...derness_Empire

[Phantasmal]

I have been attempting to up my game on knowledge of first peoples of North America

-Who will not be interested in this thread: Trump voters, xenophobes, bigots, anti-immigrants, anti-Semites, and other rightwingers who would consider Native Americans to be savages and Hispanics to be "invaders from the south".

-Who may be interested in this thread: erudite people, non-Trump voters, anyone with a curiosity about North America's first nations.

The cliff dwellers of Utah, Colorado and New Mexico are also interesting early cultures, the Hopi, Zuni and Anasazi are fascinating.

[Cypress]

Come visit me here in Columbus in the Summer time. I will take you to the Chillicothe mounds of the ancient Hopewell Culture and afterwards we can see the Alan Eckert's production of "Tecumseh" at the open air Sugarloaf Ampitheater. Time permitting we could also visit the famous Serpent Mound in Adams county just southwest of Chillicothe.



As for the Iroquis...the fact that they were "farmers" is profoundy significant. The vast majority of Native American Cultures were horticultural or hunter gatheror cultures. From an anthropological view point that the Iroquois were an agricultural society is hugely significant. They were also a very egalitarian culture as you pointed out and that the Iroquois version of Democracy was significantly more influential to our founding fathers than the Greek version. Here's another fact about the Iroquois that most people don't know. It was a matrolineal society. The men held all positions of political power but all land, material property and familial descent were controlled by the women. If a child was born, it's family name was derived from the mother and not the father. The advantage of that is that there is no such thing as an illegitimate child. If a woman was to die, all her property was inherited by her daughters. Not only did this give Iroquois women extraordinary influence for that time, they also had the franchise.

The Iroquois also ran circles around the other tribes militarily and shortly after the beginning of their confederacy they wiped out the very powerful Huron confederacy. The Iroquois League was also extremely influential in the Seven Years War in North American (known as the French and Indian war) for if the Iroquois had sided with the French during that war our entire nations history would have been unalterably changed as the British would have probably been pushed out of the North American continents and our National Language would now be French.

I'd strongly recommend reading the historical novel by Allen Eckert "The Wilderness Empire". He's not a professional historian but he writes in a manner of using narrative dialogue which obtains from both primary and secondary sources which he meticulously footnotes and a complete bibliography of sources. So if the book appeals to you can use it's bibliography to study his source material. This is a serious good read as are all of the books in Eckert's "Winning of America" series.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...derness_Empire

Thanks for the great intel.

I was thinking about you as I learned about all the burial mounds and indigenous people's archeological sites in Ohio and the Midwest.
These were real civilizations beyond what I previously understood, and need to take their place in world history as true human civilizations.

[Cypress]

The cliff dwellers of Utah, Colorado and New Mexico are also interesting early cultures, the Hopi, Zuni and Anasazi are fascinating.

I agree.
I really need to check out those sites.
Apparently there are still a lot of mystery about those sites that archeologists are still working to understand.

[Phantasmal]

I agree.
I really need to check out those sites.
Apparently there are still a lot of mystery about those sites that archeologists are still working to understand.

I’ve been to some in NM and CO, never Utah. The Hopi Three Shakes I found disturbing. Their religion, spirituality is inspiring.

[bhaktajan]

IMO It is not about Ancient-Civilizations-of-North-America ...it's about Ancient-Tribes-of-North-America or Ancient-Clans-of-North-America or Ancient-"Nations"-of-North-America


I believe that the Incan and Aztec and Mayan Architecture was much much older than the people living there when Spain's Mercenaries conquered these lands.

If the technology that we find evident in the pre-columbus epoch truely belonged to these indigenious nations there would be a University system of training engineers to manage the infrastructure ---engineering achievements have always spanned generations to arrive at grand public works. Canals and stone laying is not a whimsical accomplishment...yet just like US Homeless people who are hapless have all amenities in front of them when they roll into town, so too the Native folks of the Pre-Columbian era were living like peasants of Old Russia and Old China and Old Europe. And like the pre-modern times of Russia, where Peter the Great scrambled to catch up with the modern world while still being simple folks.

You cannot carbon date stone structures. But I would be interested in an Index of Erosion Rates of Stone...Rates of erosion of Sand Stone, Granite, Marble, concrete etc.

We have many samples to gauge by sight [Rome's Colosseum's Brick, Rome's Pantheon's dome which is still the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome. Stone Hedge] ---but I have not yet seen an Industry Standard reference chart. I have seen Slate Stone sidewalk pavers, with out a crack nor sign of wear, that are still in walked upon to this day, for the past 170 years.

The college thesis writers that get their words printed in journals are all conjecture.

What kind of author omits conjecture in his works?

Incas did not have the wheel! Why not? IMO because the Chiefs forbade it. Why was the Bicycle only invented recently?
[It is hard for me to think that NO Circus Clown would have invented a uni-cycle and a two wheel cycle in their circus acts in Greek and Roman Times]

When were Europeans introduced to the Umbrella?

Too bad about the Australian Aboriginals that they only invented flutes.

[Cancel 2019.1]

^^No humans or hominids of any kind in the Americas prior to the ice age.

According to archeologists and geneticists, homo sapiens arrived in the Americas via a land bridge in the Bering strait about 20,000 years and either migrated down along the Pacific coast, or through the land gap between the Canadian continental ice sheet and the Rockies. DNA proves that indigenous Americans came from Siberia and have a Siberian genetic fingerprint - according to what I have heard from smarter people than me.

Now, if you ask a Republican, the above is all poppycock - and the earth in 6,000 years old and humans started with Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden.

Ice Age = Milankovitch cycles, though still ongoing research into the causes and nature of the ice age. It all reminds me, that I need to do some remedial review on human evolution and the nature of the ice ages.

The bottom line is that while Republican posters here have referred to indigenous people as savages, these native cultures were far more interesting and sophisticated that the primitive "tepee" culture we see in old movies. Carry on.

I don't buy that Bering strait assumption!
I think it was just the opposite,Man crossed over from America to Asia long before the Ice Age.

[Cancel 2019.1]

Come visit me here in Columbus in the Summer time. I will take you to the Chillicothe mounds of the ancient Hopewell Culture and afterwards we can see the Alan Eckert's production of "Tecumseh" at the open air Sugarloaf Ampitheater. Time permitting we could also visit the famous Serpent Mound in Adams county just southwest of Chillicothe.



As for the Iroquis...the fact that they were "farmers" is profoundy significant. The vast majority of Native American Cultures were horticultural or hunter gatheror cultures. From an anthropological view point that the Iroquois were an agricultural society is hugely significant. They were also a very egalitarian culture as you pointed out and that the Iroquois version of Democracy was significantly more influential to our founding fathers than the Greek version. Here's another fact about the Iroquois that most people don't know. It was a matrolineal society. The men held all positions of political power but all land, material property and familial descent were controlled by the women. If a child was born, it's family name was derived from the mother and not the father. The advantage of that is that there is no such thing as an illegitimate child. If a woman was to die, all her property was inherited by her daughters. Not only did this give Iroquois women extraordinary influence for that time, they also had the franchise.

The Iroquois also ran circles around the other tribes militarily and shortly after the beginning of their confederacy they wiped out the very powerful Huron confederacy. The Iroquois League was also extremely influential in the Seven Years War in North American (known as the French and Indian war) for if the Iroquois had sided with the French during that war our entire nations history would have been unalterably changed as the British would have probably been pushed out of the North American continents and our National Language would now be French.

I'd strongly recommend reading the historical novel by Allen Eckert "The Wilderness Empire". He's not a professional historian but he writes in a manner of using narrative dialogue which obtains from both primary and secondary sources which he meticulously footnotes and a complete bibliography of sources. So if the book appeals to you can use it's bibliography to study his source material. This is a serious good read as are all of the books in Eckert's "Winning of America" series.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...derness_Empire

William Tecumseh Sherman was the reincarnation of Tecumseh,and the Red Baron was the Reincarnation of William Tecumseh Sherman.

[Mott the Hoople]

Thanks for the great intel.

I was thinking about you as I learned about all the burial mounds and indigenous people's archeological sites in Ohio and the Midwest.
These were real civilizations beyond what I previously understood, and need to take their place in world history as true human civilizations.

Indeed they do. I would also look into the development of corn, by selective breeding, as it parallels the development of meso American culture.

[Mott the Hoople]

Again I cannot stress enough what good reads Alan Eckerts books are as most Americans are completely ignorant of our frontier history and what a frightening era it was.

[Cypress]

Again I cannot stress enough what good reads Alan Eckerts books are as most Americans are completely ignorant of our frontier history and what a frightening era it was.

I will let you know if I am in your neck of the woods - because I tell you what, I think we should check out some of those burial mounds and archeological sites!

[Mott the Hoople]

I will let you know if I am in your neck of the woods - because I tell you what, I think we should check out some of those burial mounds and archeological sites!

You'd like them. We could also visit the Piatt Castles in the Indian Lake region. It's near where the old Shawnee village of Mackachack where Simon Kenton was first forced to run the guantlet after being captured. I believe that one of Kenton's Kentucky Long Rifles (a misnomer as they were actually made in Pennsylvania) is on display at one of the Piatt Castles. I've always found it odd that Daniel Boone is far better remembered than Kenton given Kenton's history.

But yea I find the regions archeological and frontier history to be absolutely fascinating. Your average person has absolutely no clue how much the geography has changed by the advent of civilization and how damned dangerous it was on the frontier.