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Thread: Supreme Court upholds Photo-ID law for Indiana voters

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    Default Supreme Court upholds Photo-ID law for Indiana voters

    It's about time. Now maybe other states will start requiring Photo ID's too, so that Senor Pancho Villa of Tijuana can't waltz in to a precinct, glance at the voter lists on the table, and announce he is Ellsworth Codrington III and vote; then go into another, do the same, and vote as Sylvester Q. Stallone etc., as he currently can in the California precincts I've seen.

    In most states Photo IDs are free, have nothing to do with drivers licenses, and many will bring them to your house so that the elderly, handicappped etc. don't have to leave home to get them.

    Naturally, Democrats are screaming bloody murder, complaining that this will cut out a lot of their usual voter base. Well, I can't argue with that. Laws that punish criminal and civil offenders often do hit disproportionate numbers of Democrats. Apparently the Democrats agree. Too bad, so sad.

    ---------------------------------

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/...cotus_voter_id

    Supreme Court upholds photo ID law for voters in Indiana

    by MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer
    April 28, 2008
    5 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court ruled Monday that states can require voters to produce photo identification without violating their constitutional rights, validating Republican-inspired voter ID laws.

    In a splintered 6-3 ruling, the court upheld Indiana's strict photo ID requirement, which Democrats and civil rights groups said would deter poor, older and minority voters from casting ballots. Its backers said it was needed to deter fraud.

    It was the most important voting rights case since the Bush v. Gore dispute that sealed the 2000 election for George W. Bush.

    The law "is amply justified by the valid interest in protecting 'the integrity and reliability of the electoral process,'" Justice John Paul Stevens said in an opinion that was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy.

    Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas also agreed with the outcome, but wrote separately.

    Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter dissented.

    More than 20 states require some form of identification at the polls. Courts have upheld voter ID laws in Arizona, Georgia and Michigan, but struck down Missouri's. Monday's decision comes a week before Indiana's presidential primary.

    The case concerned a state law, passed in 2005, that was backed by Republicans as a way to deter voter fraud. Democrats and civil rights groups opposed the law as unconstitutional and called it a thinly veiled effort to discourage elderly, poor and minority voters — those most likely to lack proper ID and who tend to vote for Democrats.

    There is little history in Indiana of either in-person voter fraud — of the sort the law was designed to thwart — or voters being inconvenienced by the law's requirements.

    "We cannot conclude that the statute imposes 'excessively burdensome requirements' on any class of voters," Stevens said.
    The Constitution isn't perfect, but it's better than the system we're using now.

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    Durn right, if you cant drive how can you vote!
    4,487

    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Durn right, if you cant drive how can you vote!
    Sounds like a lawyer who hasn't read a law but is full of assumption about it.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Sounds like a lawyer who hasn't read a law but is full of assumption about it.
    He's certainly full of something.

    What do photo IDs have to do with driving?
    The Constitution isn't perfect, but it's better than the system we're using now.

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    Someone do me a solid and compare the concurring opinion of Scalia in this case with the majority opinion in Bush v. Gore. My sense is that the differences int he treatment of infringements on voting rights are striking.

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    This opinion is insane. The court comes up with one single instance of in-person vote fraud occurring in the United States in recent years (that's one person, a measly single vote) and none in the history of Indiana, yet upholds the law anyway?

    It's laughable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Sounds like a lawyer who hasn't read a law but is full of assumption about it.
    pinhead!
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    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Sounds like a lawyer who hasn't read a law but is full of assumption about it.
    You sound like someone who accepts ideological assumptions without yourself investigating its truth.

    There have been few if any cases of people voting when they shouldn't.

    Americans don't enjoy the process of voting that much as evidenced by our consistent low turnout.

    Additionally, this law still leaves the backdoor of absentee voting wide open which would seem more prone to voting fraud. But of course they would leave that door open because it's used by republican far mpre than anyone else.
    AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.

    In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dungheap View Post
    This opinion is insane. The court comes up with one single instance of in-person vote fraud occurring in the United States in recent years (that's one person, a measly single vote) and none in the history of Indiana, yet upholds the law anyway?

    It's laughable.
    The only thing laughable is the Dems constant whining about voter verification via photo IDs. Get everyone an ID and require people to present it when voting. If the Dems took the time and money they spend fighting this issue and get IDs for the supposed disenfranchised voters without IDs, the damn issue would be resolved.
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackascoal View Post
    You sound like someone who accepts ideological assumptions without yourself investigating its truth.

    There have been few if any cases of people voting when they shouldn't.

    Americans don't enjoy the process of voting that much as evidenced by our consistent low turnout.

    Additionally, this law still leaves the backdoor of absentee voting wide open which would seem more prone to voting fraud. But of course they would leave that door open because it's used by republican far mpre than anyone else.
    Which doesn't change what I said about the law or about Jarod in this instance. Now, let me poke fun at my lawyer friend without your interference!



    As it stands giving people an ID when they register to vote for free just isn't the negative you suggest it is.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dungheap View Post
    This opinion is insane. The court comes up with one single instance of in-person vote fraud occurring in the United States in recent years (that's one person, a measly single vote) and none in the history of Indiana, yet upholds the law anyway?

    It's laughable.
    Obviously Damo is unaware of this.

    The fraud of electronic paperless, auditless voting represents are FAR more credible threat to outcomes than this bullshit .. yet the SC ignores that threat to democracy.
    AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.

    In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    The only thing laughable is the Dems constant whining about voter verification via photo IDs. Get everyone an ID and require people to present it when voting. If the Dems took the time and money they spend fighting this issue and get IDs for the supposed disenfranchised voters without IDs, the damn issue would be resolved.
    There is provable cases of fraud and provable cases of the potential for fraud with electronic voting .. yet your only problem seems to be with democrats .. who, by the way, have been proven correct on many issues that affect our democracy.
    AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.

    In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackascoal View Post
    There have been few if any cases of people voting when they shouldn't.
    Right. The records of dead people voting in Chicago, Philadelphia, etc. year after year, are all made up, it never happened, yup, yup. Move along, folks, nothing to see here.

    BTW, I assume you'd agree, then, that laws restricting "assault rifes" and .50-cal rifles are equally silly, since few if any such rifles have ever been used in crimes (a statistic actually true for a change in this thread)?
    The Constitution isn't perfect, but it's better than the system we're using now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackascoal View Post
    Obviously Damo is unaware of this.

    The fraud of electronic paperless, auditless voting represents are FAR more credible threat to outcomes than this bullshit .. yet the SC ignores that threat to democracy.
    LOL.

    Apparently you know nothing about me and make assumptions. Ad hominem without evidence is wasteful and creates enmity where none previously existed.

    I agree that all voting should be changed to reflect the ability of people to negatively effect the 'sanctity' of the vote.

    I believe that any machine with no paper trail should be trashed. I think that those with paper trails should have results double-checked automatically against simple machine counts.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
    Right. The records of dead people voting in Chicago, Philadelphia, etc. year after year, are all made up, yup, yup.

    BTW, I assume you'd agree, then, that laws restricting "assault rifes" and .50-cal rifles are equally silly, since few if any such rifles have ever been used in crimes (a statistic actually true for a change in this thread)?

    Acorn - Not to be a piss ant or anything, but I assume that the lawyers arguing the case all the way up to the Supreme Court put the evidence that they had of voter impersonation on the table. The court, in upholding the law and citing the danger of voter fraud, cites to a single instance. One single voter. That's it.

    In all likelihood, in instances where you have dead people voting they do it by absentee ballot, not by getting an impersonator to show up at the polling place. It's a lot easier, a lot more effective, a lot less likely to get caught and less likely to do jail time.

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