Frank Apisa (10-19-2018)
Damocles (10-19-2018)
It may seem miraculous to the layman."I take that as having faith in miracles." DO #439
But Earth has lots & lots of room. And life at this threshold level involves chemistry that's nearly unsuppressible. Even today our planet's chemistry demonstrates this potential.
one "teaspoon [of ocean water] will contain millions of bacteria, and 10's of millions of viruses. ... when we try to culture these organisms only about a tenth of a percent of them have ever grown in the laboratory. ...
Every 200 miles, 85% of the organisms and sequences were unique to the region.
... each site differs from each other. But the diversity and the amount of organisms is extremely high everywhere. There's different ones that grow in the cold water of the North Atlantic, than in the South Atlantic. The Atlantic ocean is different than the Pacific ocean. ... The most important thing we found is these photo-receptors see the color of light in the region reflected by the sea water.
In the Sargasso Sea, it's a deep indigo blue. The photo-receptors, it's like having one eye, only see blue light. You get into coastal waters, say see green light reflected off the chlorophyll. And a single letter change in the genetic code changes one amino acid in this protein, that changes the wavelength of light that these receptors see." Craig Venter, from his Global Ocean Sampling Expedition
"It should be obvious to anyone why conservatives and libertarians should be against Trump. He has no grounding in belief. No core philosophy. No morals. No loyalty. No curiosity. No empathy and no understanding. He demands personal loyalty and not loyalty to the nation. His only core belief is in his own superiority to everyone else. His only want is exercise more and more personal power." smb / purveyor of fact 18/03/18
And what in your opinion have I ignored?"a very ignorant one...... " PP #440
Science is a discipline PP. I'm not a scientist in every field. But a scientist need only be a scientist in one. And with that basic training, ones approach to perception and problem solving is forever advanced.
Again I invite you to cite what it is you think I'm ignorant of. But I know you won't, because I know you can't, because I know I'm not.
"It should be obvious to anyone why conservatives and libertarians should be against Trump. He has no grounding in belief. No core philosophy. No morals. No loyalty. No curiosity. No empathy and no understanding. He demands personal loyalty and not loyalty to the nation. His only core belief is in his own superiority to everyone else. His only want is exercise more and more personal power." smb / purveyor of fact 18/03/18
Yep."Chemistry to life is ‘unsuppressable’ lol?" DO #443
Some reactions need to be catalyzed, or in other ways artificially sustained or regulated. The types of nuclear reactions that energize commercial power-plants may belong in that category.
But due to chemical volatility, the goldilocks orbit of Earth where ambient H2O is in the very narrow 100C degree temperature & pressure bands where H2O is liquid, and thus promoting convection and other favorable conditions.
Don't forget. Back then there were no predators. So even defenseless life had a pretty good chance of survival.
All the first life had to do was be able to self-duplicate. And in our oceans of organic soup, it's difficult to imagine how that could have been prevented.
We can approximate how likely such first life was, by noting the interval of time between when conditions first became capable of supporting it, to when it seems to have begun. In geological time-scale, that time interval seems to have been fairly brief.
It would never occur to me to prevent you."Can we see the equations?" DO
Enjoy.
"It should be obvious to anyone why conservatives and libertarians should be against Trump. He has no grounding in belief. No core philosophy. No morals. No loyalty. No curiosity. No empathy and no understanding. He demands personal loyalty and not loyalty to the nation. His only core belief is in his own superiority to everyone else. His only want is exercise more and more personal power." smb / purveyor of fact 18/03/18
Forgive me for being a Doubting Thomas lol.
Did you mean to say nuclear reactions played a part in the origin of life? To get from lifeless chemical reactions to living things requires a code of some sort or you end up with haphazardly arranged molecules. And almost all of these are too volatile to survive because they would be subject to degradation.
If you believe life can self arrange from chemicals you have faith in miracles.
Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017
If you and I can agree on what the attributes are of a god, then I can produce mountains of evidence there is no god. Until then we simply must disagree.
I'm pretty sure you will not be forthcoming. I assume for the sake of discussion it includes the typical attributes in western civilization attributed to one including: omniscience, omnipotence,
actions demonstrating magical ability, nonconformance with Newtonian physics, a giant turtle with the universe on its back, people living in clouds tampering with
the goings on on mortals,commandments written in stone of impossible provenance sitting on Mount Nebo, burning bushes talking to people, demonstration
of the power to turn mortals to salt if gazed upon, little partly goat partly manchild perverts hopping around playing pipes... That is how the fables identify one.
If you are of the type who, if I present to you an ordinary apple you will not exclude from its characteristics godliness, then again, there is nothing to discuss.
So, upon your assent that a god is defined by the historical endowments such as these, I will produce 5 trillion molecules of evidence that there is no god.
It would be unreasonable and unscientific for you to discard all the evidence. The assertion that there is no god is therefore neither unreasonable nor unscientific.
It is a matter of weighing the physical evidence and probability that one exists. I can not prove there is no god anymore than I can prove there is no an exit 1 mile down the road
until I get there. But if I have traveled 1000 miles down the road and there have been no exit, I don't bet against that streak in the next mile.
Last edited by Micawber; 10-19-2018 at 06:16 AM.
I neither suggested nor implied that."Did you mean to say nuclear reactions played a part in the origin of life?" DO #446
Instead I was reminding that under ambient terrestrial conditions (unlike that in stars) some reactions require precise process controls; whereas others are spontaneous.
I cited it as an example of the distinction.
Such CHEMICAL reactions happen spontaneously on Earth.
Such NUCLEAR reactions do not; thus the counter-example. Capisce?
It's somewhat the reverse."To get from lifeless chemical reactions to living things requires a code of some sort or you end up with haphazardly arranged molecules." DO
It starts with haphazardly scattered chemicals. And life might be said to begin when an aggregation within such chemistry begins to duplicate itself.
Yes, we know."And almost all of these are too volatile to survive because they would be subject to degradation." DO
Too stable, and life would not have begun.
Too volatile and the instability would have undermined, overwhelmed, & prevented evolution.
So it might seem to some."If you believe life can self arrange from chemicals you have faith in miracles." DO
I quoted Venter in #442. All that goes on in one teaspoon full of water. Well how many teaspoons full of water do you suppose Earth had back then? Quintilians? Brazilians?
But it's not merely the vast volume.
It's the chemistry variation, some portions of the sea are fed by fresh water rivers unusually high in alkalinity.
There are variations not just in chemistry, but sunlight, temperature, turbulence, depth, etc.
With a laboratory the size of a planet, and with time scales that are thousands if not millions of millennia, the wonder might have been if it had NOT happened.
UNDERSTOOD.
To the mortal mind, it's difficult to comprehend.
But to the disciplined scientific mind, it's the most plausible explanation.
"It should be obvious to anyone why conservatives and libertarians should be against Trump. He has no grounding in belief. No core philosophy. No morals. No loyalty. No curiosity. No empathy and no understanding. He demands personal loyalty and not loyalty to the nation. His only core belief is in his own superiority to everyone else. His only want is exercise more and more personal power." smb / purveyor of fact 18/03/18
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