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Thread: ‘There is NO GOD’ Stephen Hawking’s final revelation of the afterlife REVEALED

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post

    I am calling attention to the fact that both "there is a GOD" and "there are no gods"...are assertions that are merely blind guesses about what does or does not exist in the REALITY of existence.
    In so doing you dignify equally that which is apparent to the senses, measured and scientifically evaluated with that which is made up and hallucinated and never credibly perceived by the senses of sane humans or any instruments the
    most intelligent humans standing on the shoulders of giants ever used to aid in perception. That's my problem with you.

    Here is what you are doing more or less.

    Rationality may be true.
    Fantasy may be true.
    Therefore they are of equal logical verity.

    Hey I can do it too.

    Which of the following is true and real:

    a platonic form horse
    the dog sitting on your hearth
    a rat with a 25 foot dick flying over the moon
    all of the above

    You are an all of the above guy.

    I put more weight on the dog answer. What you are doing is pure sophistry and you do a disservice to rationality.
    Stop giving retards the warm fuzzy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    Not necessarily.

    Cause and effect may be limited to the universe in the same sense space and time are. Also, by exempting the universe from requiring a cause you are, ironically, assigning to it an attribute shared by God.

    God requires no cause.
    I believe in god - but I don't think you can just get away w/ that last part. Why not?

    Can't we say that the universe required no cause?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thing1 View Post
    I believe in god - but I don't think you can just get away w/ that last part. Why not?

    Can't we say that the universe required no cause?
    You can, but that means assigning an attribute of God [causeless, eternal being] to creation.

    That, and if you want to go with current knowledge the universe had a beginning and is probably finite. Some say it’s cyclical with periods of expansion and contraction but that still begs the question of First Cause.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    You can, but that means assigning an attribute of God [causeless, eternal being] to creation.

    That, and if you want to go with current knowledge the universe had a beginning and is probably finite. Some say it’s cyclical with periods of expansion and contraction but that still begs the question of First Cause.
    To me, it's too much of an escape clause. The whole "god just always was - we don't need a cause" thing. That MAY be, but there has to be some sort of logic to it. We can't demand explanation for the universe, and then immediately abandon it when it comes to god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Yep thousands of years ago primitive people explained events by some outside source they called a god.
    Then by your view, man is still primitive. Most people believe in some sort of god or gods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    They did not have the scientific knowledge or vocabulary to understand it. Now we do.Science has burned all those bridges to religion.
    Science doesn't address it at all. It does not prove any god or gods do not exist. Science is agnostic. Have you any idea how many scientists are religious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Good, because religion makes man stupider and it is dangerous resulting in wars and abuse of non believers. been pretty cruel to believers too.
    No, MAN uses religion to wage his wars. He takes the name of God in vain by doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    It is true there can be no proof shown for a fictional being. I cannot show you absolute solid proof that there is no Sanata Claus. Not even an Easter Bunny, but we know they are not real.
    Argument of ignorance. You cannot know they are not real.
    [QUOTE=Nordberg;2665343]
    Neither is god.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    You believe, simply supply proof and we will all believe.
    None needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    If god existed he would have made a worldwide announcement saying so.
    He already has, quite a few times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    it would stop all the thousands of religions and end religious wars and abuse.
    No, it wouldn't. That is evident.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Seems like something a god would do. But thousands of years later, nope. Silence. That is the sound of no god.
    You haven't been paying attention then!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    There's no error. Lefties are by far more religious than conservatives.
    Bigotry. You are making a compositional error involving people as the class. Religion exists on all sides of the political spectrum. No one has 'the most'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micawber View Post
    There is no evidence of any god and the fact that there are billions of phones and satellites, and people with eyes and there is no credible evidence ever, anywhere,
    at any time, that can be looked at, and substantiated, make the existence of god improbable, unless one entertains the idea that god is a great deceiver hiding his
    existence or the fact of existence itself is evidence of god.

    So I take exception. There is no empirical evidence of god at all. That means that it is more probable there is no god. In fact it makes the existence of god
    statistically impossible as far as measuring. No evidence whatsoever. None. Zip.
    Argument of ignorance. Argument of the Stone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Larrikin View Post
    You don't have to say "There are no gods," to be an atheist. All you have to do is say, "I don't believe there are any gods," and you are an atheist. If someone wants me to believe in a god all they have to do is provide real evidence.
    Argument of ignorance fallacy. Argument of the Stone fallacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guille View Post
    No it is not.

    Bigfoot doesn't exist, neither does the Yeti.
    There is no Loch Ness Monster.
    We are not being visited by little gray aliens or any other aliens.
    There isn't one single T-Rex walking the Earth right now, not anywhere.
    God doesn't exist.
    All arguments of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guille View Post
    It is only the last statement about God where you see people making the claim that because non-believers can't prove that God doesn't exist the believers belief in a fairy tale is just as strong an opinion. It is only with God that proving a negative is expected, if this thread were about anything but God it would be in the Conspiracy forum along with the Bigfoot and Alien talk..or my personal favorite, Bigfoot IS an Alien.

    Claims require proof. Someone who due to lack of evidence chooses to believe something doesn't exist is not the same as someone who chooses to ignore the lack of evidence and believe anyway.
    There is supporting evidence for the existence of God. There is also supporting evidence that there is no god or gods.
    It is not possible to prove a god or gods exist. It is not possible to prove a god or gods don't exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guille View Post
    The point I was making is it is impossible to prove something does not exist, only that it does. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that something does exist.
    It is not possible to prove any god or gods exist. It is not possible prove a god or gods don't exist. No proof is possible either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guille View Post
    OK, keep ignoring the point Frank. Given a lack of evidence the person who believes is not equivalent to the person who doesn't believe. If we substitute Bigfoot for God you wouldn't be making this claim.
    If you substitute Bigfoot for God it makes no difference. It is not possible to prove either one exists. It is not possible to prove either one does not exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guille View Post
    1. The logician would tell you that you can't prove a negative.
    Correct. He will also tell you that you can't force someone else to prove a negative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    You don’t believe in the Big Bang theory?

    You’re practicing radical skepticism, Frankie lol. My claim is that God is a plausible candidate for the Beginner.

    Hence, my faith is based in logic and reason.
    No, it is based on faith. It can be based on nothing else.

    The Theory of the Big Bang is not a theory of science. It is a nonscientific theory, and a religion. Science has no theories about past unobserved events. They are not falsifiable. A religion is an initial circular argument with arguments extending from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    No logician on the planet would tell you that.

    You can prove a negative...providing the negative is not exceedingly universal in nature.



    Okay...I guess you have got to do that kind of shit. I laughed, for it is worth.

    HERE IS MY POSITION LAID OUT (I've previously offered it many times in this forum)

    I do not know if gods exist or not;
    I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
    I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
    I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

    ...so I don't.
    You cannot prove a negative.

    As far as your position is concerned, that is fine. You are free to believe what you will. The mistake is made in trying to prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guille View Post
    I did not change what you said. You have been arguing from the beginning that given no evidence of something existing non-belief and belief are equally logical. They are not.
    'Non-belief' is itself a belief.

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