The Good Old Days Of America's Healthcare System, Bring It Back

[Nordberg]

Hello Robo,



I disagree. Two big things have changed since the 30's - 50's:

1.) Food has become unhealthy. There didn't used to be so much processed food. With the advent of TV, a large percentage of the population has become addicted to unhealthy food. Health care costs so much partly because we become so sick!

2.) Diagnosis and treatment has progressed, but the advancements are very expensive. X-Ray machines were a pretty new then. And very pricey. Normalized use of X-Ray machines for medical purposes did not occur until WWII. They, and subsequent use of medical imaging techniques such as CAT Scan, and MRI have become increasingly expensive. Those things simply were not regularly available in the the 30's and early 40's. And we paid a costly price for learning how to use them. Doctors didn't know any better when it became routine to X-Ray pregnant mothers. After many deformities, the danger was realized, and the practice was ceased.

Health care could be very inexpensive if we went back to the less effective level of care prior to modern medicine. But few advocate for that. People appreciate the advancements.

Since nobody who urgently needs care has the effective ability to shop around for price, there is no typical free market competition in medical care. For that reason, capitalism is not a good model to use for health care. We should adopt a totally socialist approach where we, the people, own all the facilities and hire all the workers. Health care service should be akin to military service, with all the personnel thought of as serving the nation. Big pharma and big insurance are ripping us off.

I would compromise to a position of Single Payer for insurance, but we still have to be free to negotiate as a volume buyer with pharma industries.

I like the Medicare-For-All idea.

Medicare does not solve the problems. It only covers 80 percent. In America ,with our enormous operation and maintenance costs, 20 percent can break you. We really want to make it so a person who gets ill or in an accident does not suffer bankruptcy or homelessness. we need universal heathcare with the power taken out of Pharm and health insurances hands.

[Robo]

Medicare does not solve the problems. It only covers 80 percent. In America ,with our enormous operation and maintenance costs, 20 percent can break you. We really want to make it so a person who gets ill or in an accident does not suffer bankruptcy or homelessness. we need universal heathcare with the power taken out of Pharm and health insurances hands.

Explain the universal healthcare plan you support and how and by who it gets funded and what you believe it will cost.

[Robo]

it did not exist back then. Founders were also silent on nuclear weapons and nuclear energy. Where did we derive the right to those things when it is not in the constitution? Women voting is against the constitution. What is wrong with us allowing them to vote?

Like the woman's vote, our founders left that issue and all others open to Article 5. Where's the Article 5 authority for Medicare and Medicaid?

[Robo]

Hello Robo,



I disagree. Two big things have changed since the 30's - 50's:

1.) Food has become unhealthy. There didn't used to be so much processed food. With the advent of TV, a large percentage of the population has become addicted to unhealthy food. Health care costs so much partly because we become so sick!

2.) Diagnosis and treatment has progressed, but the advancements are very expensive. X-Ray machines were a pretty new then. And very pricey. Normalized use of X-Ray machines for medical purposes did not occur until WWII. They, and subsequent use of medical imaging techniques such as CAT Scan, and MRI have become increasingly expensive. Those things simply were not regularly available in the the 30's and early 40's. And we paid a costly price for learning how to use them. Doctors didn't know any better when it became routine to X-Ray pregnant mothers. After many deformities, the danger was realized, and the practice was ceased.

Health care could be very inexpensive if we went back to the less effective level of care prior to modern medicine. But few advocate for that. People appreciate the advancements.

Since nobody who urgently needs care has the effective ability to shop around for price, there is no typical free market competition in medical care. For that reason, capitalism is not a good model to use for health care. We should adopt a totally socialist approach where we, the people, own all the facilities and hire all the workers. Health care service should be akin to military service, with all the personnel thought of as serving the nation. Big pharma and big insurance are ripping us off.

I would compromise to a position of Single Payer for insurance, but we still have to be free to negotiate as a volume buyer with pharma industries.

I like the Medicare-For-All idea.

Because people eat food that's bad for them, the taxpayers should finance their healthcare, right?

Can you show me the constitutional authority for Medicare and Medicaid?

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

Medicare does not solve the problems. It only covers 80 percent. In America ,with our enormous operation and maintenance costs, 20 percent can break you. We really want to make it so a person who gets ill or in an accident does not suffer bankruptcy or homelessness. we need universal heathcare with the power taken out of Pharm and health insurances hands.

Agreed, but we need to get there incrementally, due to misconceptions.

Just as I see the PPACA as a stepping stone, so is Medicare-For-All.

It is our next logical step, and it is possible. It is within the realm of easy visualization, making the argument convincing enough that we can make American greater by doing this now.

Down the road, after we get used to MFA, we can further improve it by making the changes needed to go to fully universal health care.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

Can you show me the constitutional authority for Medicare and Medicaid?

It Promotes the General Welfare.

If it is not prevented by the Constitution, then it is wide open to do.

Can you show some part of the Constitution which says we cannot do this?

It seems to me, that if Medicare and Medicaid were unconstitutional, they would have been challenged and thrown out decades ago.

Why argue it on a chat board? Why not get a fancy lawyer and have the best system of care for the elderly and needy thrown out?

That way, the rich and powerful can be even richer and more powerful as the masses suffer horribly. (if that is your goal...)

[PoliTalker]

Hello Robo,

Because people eat food that's bad for them, the taxpayers should finance their healthcare, right?

People are eating food that is bad for them because of capitalism. The richest taxpayers own parts of the corporations which profit from providing the unhealthy food, so they should pay for the consequences of it in their taxes. What goes around comes around.

[Nordberg]

Explain the universal healthcare plan you support and how and by who it gets funded and what you believe it will cost.

It will cost a lot less. Universal healthcare removes the VA, Medicare, Medicaid and the wasted cost of insurance companies. that is many billions of dollars. Vets could go to the closest and most convenient doctor or hospital. Everyone could. Insurance companies just add cost and complication to the industry. they increase profits by cheating you out of the healthcare you paid for. they have systems in place to do exactly that. Heathcare in the US is an adversarial experience with sick people battling insurance companies for their treatments.

Every other industrial country has universal health care that results in better care and for less than half our costs. In America cheating and looting pople is our national sport. Oher countries also cover everybody. We do not. Many diabetics in America walk around undiagnosed and untreated. that will eventually end up in a much sicker person getting into the system just when their care is the most expensive. Uncovered people going to emergency rooms is the worst way to handle the disadvantaged. that cost goes to tax payers . You are paying top price to treat the needy. Poor people are not getting regular care. We should be ashamed of that.

just read that 10 percent,350 billion ,in hospital care is fraudulent billing. his is what we are dealing with.

[Nordberg]

Because people eat food that's bad for them, the taxpayers should finance their healthcare, right?

Can you show me the constitutional authority for Medicare and Medicaid?

When SS was taken to the Supremes, on a 7 to 2 decision, they ruled the "commerce clause" gives the government the power to institute national programs. It is precedence.

[NiftyNiblick]

Can you show me the constitutional authority for Medicare and Medicaid?

The Constitution only specifies what the government can't do or must do.
It says nothing about what the government can do.

Your question, then, is absurd.
By your reasoning, there would be almost no laws or programs at all.

[Nordberg]

Politicians have run since Roosevelt on a better healthcare system. Our healthcare has been a campaign debate since back then. We all knew the continued growing cost of healthcare was unsustainable. Its cost has outstripped inflation by double for generations. Both dems and repubs excoriated our sysytem, but nobody fixes it. It is way past time to get universal healthcare but the incredible lobbying and donations by the industry have made it impossible. the Republicans will never fix it. It just keeps gobbling up more and more wealth.

Nearly every democratic administration tried to fix health care .there were even a couple of Repub congressmen who tried to get bills passed. the AMA, Pharm, and hospitals were too powerful. You know Trump has no interest in fixing it.