Fixing Granny's house

[MAGA MAN]

I was called on a problem house down in Lumberton last week, house built in 1945. Granny is in her 80's, let the house go after her husband died and has dementia. She stopped making tax payments and the city threatened to evict her. Grandson stepped up, paid the taxes and now has himself as joint owner. He hires a day nurse to keep her clean and fed, but he lives in Raleigh, two hours north.

Tax value is $50k, slow economy down there. Homes on the street are higher values and maintained. House has 5 small additions, plus a 6th- brick veneer. Floor plan is terrible, 8' wide x 20' long 2nd bedroom, probably an old porch, and the second bathroom through the main living area on the extreme other side of the house. Ceilings 6'-10", don't even make the Code minimum of 7'. On a crawl space that is inaccessible if you follow OSHA regs, which I do. It's 18" high at the highest point, and quickly dives down to much less. All I could do was stick my camera through the opening and snap some pictures in a scan pattern.

The brick veneer is perfect, indicating that the perimeter footings are good.

Granny is in her 80's, let the house go after her husband died and has dementia. She stopped making tax payments and the city threatened to evict her. Grandson stepped up, paid the taxes and now has himself as joint owner. He hires a day nurse to keep her clean and fed, but he lives in Raleigh, two hours north.

I've never seen termite infestation this bad. The door to the bathroom from the master bedroom just fell off the frame. The jack studs behind it look like swollen styrofoam. The floors throughout are like a roller coaster. The place stinks, probably dead animals in the crawl space below the floor, plus a disaster of plumbing leaks that can't be fixed because the space below is inaccessible. "A hot mess", as my client warned me.

Normally in a situation like this we move everything out of the house and take the floors out, leaving the walls hanging. We have a termite guy come in and treat everything left over. Then rebuild the floor structure with pressure treated lumber. Encapsulate the crawl space and dehumidify it. Then we build trap doors everywhere to access the space to service the plumbing.

However I always try to think outside the box and in this case I may have a way to help the grandson out and make his investment work for him.

I spent most of the day designing a new floor plan, expanding the second bedroom, putting a bathroom in it, enlarging the master closet into the common bath and making it a powder room. Getting rid of the non-working central HVAC for modern split systems, and making that space into a cozy office. I dropped the floor down and made it a slab on grade, so ceiling height goes to 8'-3". Completely new exterior studs set inside the old walls to make a 9" super-insulated envelope.

I hope he goes for this design. Cost should be about the same as the "normal", and he creates a much more modern, desirable home.

[Jack]

Home is unsalvageable. Sell immediately "as is". Put Granny in Assisted Living.

[MAGA MAN]

Neither are options.

[Jack]

DS: "I dropped the floor down and made it a slab on grade, so ceiling height goes to 8'-3"."
Jack: Does this mean the house drain will be going 'uphill'? Did you shoot an elevation to the City Sewer/Septic Tank connection? Will the new 'slab' be a 'low point' and collect water?

This thing sounds like a can of worms, might be better to burn it down and just start over?

[Irish Exit]

I personally would never buy a house with a slab foundation. I know they are pretty standard in places like eastern Texas due to bedrock, but the last thing I would want is a giant crack running through my house. There is one down the street from me that has that problem. If this property is 2 hours south of Raleigh, it sounds like it could still have expansive soil that can do a number on that slab over time. I mean you do what you've got to do in the here and now, but I question how much resell value the house could have down the road. Still sounds like it will be a tear down once Granny crosses the bridge.

[MAGA MAN]

DS: "I dropped the floor down and made it a slab on grade, so ceiling height goes to 8'-3"."
Jack: Does this mean the house drain will be going 'uphill'? Did you shoot an elevation to the City Sewer/Septic Tank connection? Will the new 'slab' be a 'low point' and collect water?

This thing sounds like a can of worms, might be better to burn it down and just start over?

Burning it down would displace Granny. The new slab elevation would be 8" minimum above the crawl space floor, and that is the same as the outside elevation. The sewer main outside is below ground, so it will drain as before.

[MAGA MAN]

I personally would never buy a house with a slab foundation. I know they are pretty standard in places like eastern Texas due to bedrock, but the last thing I would want is a giant crack running through my house. There is one down the street from me that has that problem. If this property is 2 hours south of Raleigh, it sounds like it could still have expansive soil that can do a number on that slab over time. I mean you do what you've got to do in the here and now, but I question how much resell value the house could have down the road. Still sounds like it will be a tear down once Granny crosses the bridge.

These are the sand hills. The perimeter brick veneer, probably built on the overhang of the perimeter footing, doesn't have a crack after 20 years.

Concrete slabs always crack a few days after they are poured. The trick is to manage the cracks with control joints, and place the joints under walls, and other places where they won't be a problem.

[Irish Exit]

These are the sand hills. The perimeter brick veneer, probably built on the overhang of the perimeter footing, doesn't have a crack after 20 years.

Concrete slabs always crack a few days after they are poured. The trick is to manage the cracks with control joints, and place the joints under walls, and other places where they won't be a problem.

This isn't a thing running crack. It is a fissure type crack.

[Jack]

Burning it down would displace Granny. The new slab elevation would be 8" minimum above the crawl space floor, and that is the same as the outside elevation. The sewer main outside is below ground, so it will drain as before.

DS: "Ceilings 6'-10" " ... "so ceiling height goes to 8'-3". "
Jack: Sounds like you are dropping the existing floor elevation 17''. Which means the plumbing drain (the P-trap) at the Bathtub and Toilet would drop in a similar manner. That's a large drop in height. My first thought would be about the House Drain, would it still 'flow'?

DS: "The new slab elevation would be 8" minimum above the crawl space floor, and that is the same as the outside elevation."
Jack: You haven't mentioned the surrounding terrain, but 8" above the ground doesn't mean much if it rains a lot, prone to flooding, or is on an incline. At least with a raised house the water can run beneath it and never enter.

[USFREEDOM911]

I was called on a problem house down in Lumberton last week, house built in 1945. Granny is in her 80's, let the house go after her husband died and has dementia. She stopped making tax payments and the city threatened to evict her. Grandson stepped up, paid the taxes and now has himself as joint owner. He hires a day nurse to keep her clean and fed, but he lives in Raleigh, two hours north.

Tax value is $50k, slow economy down there. Homes on the street are higher values and maintained. House has 5 small additions, plus a 6th- brick veneer. Floor plan is terrible, 8' wide x 20' long 2nd bedroom, probably an old porch, and the second bathroom through the main living area on the extreme other side of the house. Ceilings 6'-10", don't even make the Code minimum of 7'. On a crawl space that is inaccessible if you follow OSHA regs, which I do. It's 18" high at the highest point, and quickly dives down to much less. All I could do was stick my camera through the opening and snap some pictures in a scan pattern.

The brick veneer is perfect, indicating that the perimeter footings are good.

Granny is in her 80's, let the house go after her husband died and has dementia. She stopped making tax payments and the city threatened to evict her. Grandson stepped up, paid the taxes and now has himself as joint owner. He hires a day nurse to keep her clean and fed, but he lives in Raleigh, two hours north.

I've never seen termite infestation this bad. The door to the bathroom from the master bedroom just fell off the frame. The jack studs behind it look like swollen styrofoam. The floors throughout are like a roller coaster. The place stinks, probably dead animals in the crawl space below the floor, plus a disaster of plumbing leaks that can't be fixed because the space below is inaccessible. "A hot mess", as my client warned me.

Normally in a situation like this we move everything out of the house and take the floors out, leaving the walls hanging. We have a termite guy come in and treat everything left over. Then rebuild the floor structure with pressure treated lumber. Encapsulate the crawl space and dehumidify it. Then we build trap doors everywhere to access the space to service the plumbing.

However I always try to think outside the box and in this case I may have a way to help the grandson out and make his investment work for him.

I spent most of the day designing a new floor plan, expanding the second bedroom, putting a bathroom in it, enlarging the master closet into the common bath and making it a powder room. Getting rid of the non-working central HVAC for modern split systems, and making that space into a cozy office. I dropped the floor down and made it a slab on grade, so ceiling height goes to 8'-3". Completely new exterior studs set inside the old walls to make a 9" super-insulated envelope.

I hope he goes for this design. Cost should be about the same as the "normal", and he creates a much more modern, desirable home.

Kudos to him, for helping out his Grandmother, and kudos to you, for being involved.

[Jack]

Kudos to him, for helping out his Grandmother, and kudos to you, for being involved.

Money Pit.

1. How big is this place? 1500 sq. ft.?
2. It's infested with termites, what's left of the walls?
3. What kind of Electrical Service does it have? Fuses? 100 amp Service?
4. Does the HVAC even work?
5. How does DS plan to pour a monolithic slab inside an existing structure that has load bearing walls?
a. when he digs out around the perimeter beam for this new turned down beam to support the new double wall, does he weaken the existing perimeter beam that supports the brickwork?
b. will the expansion joint between the existing perimeter beam and new slab create a water problem due to hydraulic pressure?

Get the fucking Dozer. Do you really think spending a 100 K to turn an old turd into a new turd is cost effective?

[MAGA MAN]

DS: "Ceilings 6'-10" " ... "so ceiling height goes to 8'-3". "
Jack: Sounds like you are dropping the existing floor elevation 17''. Which means the plumbing drain (the P-trap) at the Bathtub and Toilet would drop in a similar manner. That's a large drop in height. My first thought would be about the House Drain, would it still 'flow'?

DS: "The new slab elevation would be 8" minimum above the crawl space floor, and that is the same as the outside elevation."
Jack: You haven't mentioned the surrounding terrain, but 8" above the ground doesn't mean much if it rains a lot, prone to flooding, or is on an incline. At least with a raised house the water can run beneath it and never enter.

Flood elevation is 4' below the grade at the house, and a mile away. The site has no history of flooding.

[MAGA MAN]

This isn't a thing running crack. It is a fissure type crack.

Sounds like you've never built or repaired a house before. I've done well over a thousand and I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Jack]

Flood elevation is 4' below the grade at the house, and a mile away. The site has no history of flooding.

How do you plan on pouring a monolithic slab inside an existing structure that has bearing walls?

What's the purpose of the 8'-3' ceiling height?

Just playing Devils Advocate here, tossing things I see as problems back at you.

[MAGA MAN]

How do you plan on pouring a monolithic slab inside an existing structure that has bearing walls?

What's the purpose of the 8'-3' ceiling height?

Just playing Devils Advocate here, tossing things I see as problems back at you.

Provide temporary support and pour in sections. We'll start in the back and work our way to the front where all the debris will go out and all the new material will go in. Probably enlarge the front door so we can drive in a skid-steer.

A normal wall consists of a 2x4 bottom plate (1.5" high), a stud, and two top plates (2 x 1.5 = 3"). Use an 8' stud and you've got an 8'-3" wall. In this case, this also turns out to be just about perfect for 4" crushed stone under 4" concrete slab, so it minimizes fill, which of course would be an added expense.