Smoking is restricted. Should "vaping" or e-cigarette use have the same restrictions?

[dukkha]

Nicotine poisoning describes the symptoms of the toxic effects of nicotine following ingestion, inhalation, or skin contact. Nicotine poisoning can potentially be deadly, though serious or fatal overdoses are rare.[1] Historically, most cases of nicotine poisoning have been the result of use of nicotine as an insecticide.[2][3] More recent cases of poisoning typically appear to be in the form of Green Tobacco Sickness, or due to unintended ingestion of tobacco or tobacco products or consumption of nicotine-containing plants

The recent rise in the use of electronic cigarettes, many forms of which are designed to be refilled with nicotine-containing "e-liquid" supplied in small plastic bottles, has renewed interest in nicotine overdoses, especially in the possibility of young children ingesting the liquids.[22] A 2015 Public Health England report noted an "unconfirmed newspaper report of a fatal poisoning of a two-year old child" and two published case reports of children of similar age who had recovered after ingesting e-liquid and vomiting.[22] They also noted case reports of suicides by nicotine. Where adults drank liquid containing up to 1,500 mg of nicotine they recovered (helped by vomiting), but an ingestion apparently of about 10,000 mg was fatal, as was an injection.[22] They commented that "Serious nicotine poisoning seems normally prevented by the fact that relatively low doses of nicotine cause nausea and vomiting, which stops users from further intake."[22] Four adults died in the US and Europe, after intentionally ingesting liquid.[23] Two children, one in the US in 2014 and another in Israel in 2013, died after ingesting liquid nicotine.[24]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning

[Stretch]

Nicotine poisoning describes the symptoms of the toxic effects of nicotine following ingestion, inhalation, or skin contact. Nicotine poisoning can potentially be deadly, though serious or fatal overdoses are rare.[1] Historically, most cases of nicotine poisoning have been the result of use of nicotine as an insecticide.[2][3] More recent cases of poisoning typically appear to be in the form of Green Tobacco Sickness, or due to unintended ingestion of tobacco or tobacco products or consumption of nicotine-containing plants

The recent rise in the use of electronic cigarettes, many forms of which are designed to be refilled with nicotine-containing "e-liquid" supplied in small plastic bottles, has renewed interest in nicotine overdoses, especially in the possibility of young children ingesting the liquids.[22] A 2015 Public Health England report noted an "unconfirmed newspaper report of a fatal poisoning of a two-year old child" and two published case reports of children of similar age who had recovered after ingesting e-liquid and vomiting.[22] They also noted case reports of suicides by nicotine. Where adults drank liquid containing up to 1,500 mg of nicotine they recovered (helped by vomiting), but an ingestion apparently of about 10,000 mg was fatal, as was an injection.[22] They commented that "Serious nicotine poisoning seems normally prevented by the fact that relatively low doses of nicotine cause nausea and vomiting, which stops users from further intake."[22] Four adults died in the US and Europe, after intentionally ingesting liquid.[23] Two children, one in the US in 2014 and another in Israel in 2013, died after ingesting liquid nicotine.[24]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning

Thank-you "through ingestion".

[PostmodernProphet]

Smells nice.

I know, right?.......my office is in a no smoking building and one time the landlord complimented me on my new air freshener.....

[PostmodernProphet]

I deduce you're asserting there's no 2nd hand nicotine.

That might be nice, if it were true.

BUT !!

For it to be not true, it would have to be:

a) That the drug transfer ratio is 100%. That's extremely unlikely. The subject inhales vapor, and then exhales vapor. Your claim is that 100% of the nicotine penetrates & is fully retained by the initial vaper (or that somehow nicotine becomes neutralized in that narrow time window).

b) Perhaps not fatal. But the law doesn't limit protections to only that which is fatal. Loud music at 4:AM isn't fatal either. But police still respond to noise complaints, to "turn it down".

MM #26

I'm w/ you on this one MM.
BUT !!

Even if not, the contents of the vaper's exhale is visible. So it can't be nothing. Some people may not mind. Others might. But it's not my job as a citizen to find a place to stand that isn't downwind of fumes, lethal or not.

its true......the nicotine evaporates too quickly.....

[PostmodernProphet]

S #31

a) Fine.

b) In law that's called "de minimus". But even the law doesn't claim it's zero.

c) We're now in Sorites Paradox territory. How trivial does it have to be to be de minimus? Some patients on heart medication might not fare well with nicotine exposure that a healthy person could shrug off.

d) Some of these risks manifest as bio-accumulators.

e) It is not, and must not be the polluter's choice, or authority to declare what exposures are insignificant, and which are not. We have a right to breathe air that isn't contaminated by willful recreational acts. If they want to vape, let them go out behind the garage.

I think you should concentrate your efforts on something really important......like plastic straws.........

[PostmodernProphet]

Nicotine poisoning describes the symptoms of the toxic effects of nicotine following ingestion, inhalation, or skin contact. Nicotine poisoning can potentially be deadly, though serious or fatal overdoses are rare.[1] Historically, most cases of nicotine poisoning have been the result of use of nicotine as an insecticide.[2][3] More recent cases of poisoning typically appear to be in the form of Green Tobacco Sickness, or due to unintended ingestion of tobacco or tobacco products or consumption of nicotine-containing plants

The recent rise in the use of electronic cigarettes, many forms of which are designed to be refilled with nicotine-containing "e-liquid" supplied in small plastic bottles, has renewed interest in nicotine overdoses, especially in the possibility of young children ingesting the liquids.[22] A 2015 Public Health England report noted an "unconfirmed newspaper report of a fatal poisoning of a two-year old child" and two published case reports of children of similar age who had recovered after ingesting e-liquid and vomiting.[22] They also noted case reports of suicides by nicotine. Where adults drank liquid containing up to 1,500 mg of nicotine they recovered (helped by vomiting), but an ingestion apparently of about 10,000 mg was fatal, as was an injection.[22] They commented that "Serious nicotine poisoning seems normally prevented by the fact that relatively low doses of nicotine cause nausea and vomiting, which stops users from further intake."[22] Four adults died in the US and Europe, after intentionally ingesting liquid.[23] Two children, one in the US in 2014 and another in Israel in 2013, died after ingesting liquid nicotine.[24]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning

nicotine "burns" like poison ivy.....I used to mix my own eliquid.......I would buy in 100 mg strength because that was the max you could handle without special gloves,etc.....

at the level most people use you would get a worse burn from a scotch bonnet........

[PostmodernProphet]

a) I virtually never do video. Due to my location:



I pay $top $dollar for broadband, or settle for dial-up.
Text isn't too much of a burden on my ISP bandwidth. But still images are a problem, and video is a killer.
If there's a concept you wish to communicate to me, communicate it in text. You know, the way I do to you?

Indeed.
But the issue here is public policy.
And because of that, it's not a matter of one individual's risk. It's a matter of statistical risk to populations.
And that's hardly an "if".

"Your right to flail your fist ends short of where my nose begins."

If you want to vape, go ahead. Just be sure it's not upwind, and within arms length of me (& vice versa).

then you have an excuse for your ignorance on the issue.....thanks for playing......

[sear]

"its true......the nicotine evaporates too quickly..... " PP #49

PP:

a) It's ALREADY vapor. Vapor doesn't evaporate.

b) Vaporization alters the PHYSICAL state, not the CHEMICAL state.
So even evaporated nicotine is still nicotine.

PP #50

They're on it.

BUT !!

I've read paper straws cost ~20x what plastic straws cost. Perhaps a nation-wide, or perhaps even global transition to waxed paper straws will neutralize much if not all of that price differential.

"then you have an excuse for your ignorance on the issue.....thanks for playing...... " PP

"Ignorance on the issue" PP? I've been correcting you. Yet you wish to pretend I'm ignorant? Very well. Please post ONE example. Thanks.

".....thanks for playing...... " PP

"Playing"?
I'm the one that introduced this multi-page topic, and have been correcting you within it. But thanks for trying. Who knows? If you try long enough, you may actually blunder into a valid point!

[Stretch]

Sear.....................I just provided plenty of text for you to read so that you can become more knowledgeable on the topic of vapor, vaping, nicotine, etc. You're welcome.

[sear]

S #54

That's fine. I noticed.
Is there ONE specific error I've posted which leads you to believe I need to become more knowledgeable? If so, please quote me & correct me. While I appreciate your effort, if your "help" is so vague, I have no rational reason to think there is within it a point that will correct me.

[Granule]

In many locations and jurisdictions tobacco smoking is restricted or prohibited.

But "e-cigarettes" were used as a loop-hole in those legal restrictions.

a) Should such legal loop-holes now be closed? Should locations where tobacco smoking is restricted also restrict vaping?

b) Should age restrictions (usually for those younger than 21) also apply to vaping?

Is vaping supported by big business? Don't get played...

-- the Left

[Irish]

I don't see why not. They make huge clouds.

[Minister of Truth]

I don't know if all of the data you people have referenced has had any effect, but, about ten years ago I remember noticing that non-smoking places were including e-cigarattes in their bans. It surprised me, because they were supposed to be aids for fighting addiction (like nicotine gum), and weren't supposed to be toxic to bystanders the way "secondhand smoke" is.

[Stretch]

Big pharma hates vaping because it cuts into their anti-depressant, gum and patch profits.
Big tobacco hates vaping because it cuts into their cancer stick profits.

Ergo...............Big government and politicians beholding to those lobbyists step in to try to make vaping as difficult and uncomfortable as possible.

I worked at the Health Dept. 6 years ago when I began seriously vaping. This was at the height of their big push for using drugs, patches or gum. When I (and a few others) wanted to step outside for a vape they made us go to the smoking area!!! The very thing that we did not want to be around.

[PostmodernProphet]

PP:

a) It's ALREADY vapor. Vapor doesn't evaporate.

I'm sorry....maybe you didn't understand why they call it eliquid.....