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Thread: Why does Trump stomp on his own team's talking points?

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    Default Why does Trump stomp on his own team's talking points?

    One odd thing about Trump is the way he seems to go out of his way to demolish the carefully assembled apologetics of his own staff. It happens again and again, but I'll give one example so it's clear what I'm talking about.

    After Trump's surprise firing of Comey, his staff scrambled for an acceptable explanation. They were smart enough to realize that firing the head of the FBI at a time when he was investigating election interference that seemed to implicate the president would look like obstruction of justice. Trump hadn't given them advance warning, so they didn't have a chance to get out ahead of that with a media playbook, but within a day or so, they'd settled on the talking point that it had nothing to do with the Russia thing, and instead was about the misbehavior Rosenstein had highlighted, involving Comey abusing his office to hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign. For a last-second phony justification, it was pretty clever: Rosenstein's memo cited facts liberals couldn't dispute, and provided an explanation for firing that had nothing to do with the Russia thing, so it wouldn't be obstruction of justice. Sure, everyone knew it was a lie, but it gave the usual right-wing talking heads something to pretend they believed when they made the rounds of the shows, and the only thing that could definitively disprove it is if Trump came right out and admitted he'd done it because of the Russia thing.

    Well, as you know, that's just what happened. After letting his team humiliate themselves pushing a well-crafted lie to try to protect him, he went on TV and admitted he'd made the decision to fire Comey before seeing the Rosenstein memo, and that he was thinking about the Russia thing when he did so.

    The question is why Trump does that sort of thing. My initial thought was that he was basically acting like an abusive boyfriend, who likes to hit his girl in front of his friends, as a way of bragging about how much she has submitted to him. Maybe Trump just got off on making his press secretary, his professional apologists in the media, and all the little forum denizens look foolish, by letting them commit to talking points and then stomping on them for all to see.

    Maybe that's not right, though. Maybe it's about more than the sadistic thrill of smacking around those with so little self respect that they're still making excuses for him. Maybe it's about sending a message to others -- a message that he is completely unconstrained. As Machievelli wrote, "it's better to be feared than loved." Maybe this is a way of keeping the right-wingers fearful... if he'll casually kneecap conservatives even when they're trying to help him, imagine what he'll do if they cross him. Moreover, it sends the signal that he won't be constrained by trying to stick to colorably defensible actions. If you want to signal your power, it's not enough to fire Comey for a nominal reason that would be legitimate-- you need to show you can fire him for openly illegitimate reasons, and nobody on the right will have the balls to do anything about it.

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    I'm going to go with Door #2 -- Trump does this stuff, over and over again, deliberately to show that "You're not the boss of me". All of his life he has believed that he is above the law, above following the rules, above the restrictions that us petty peons adhere to. His money allows him to buy his way out of troubles, time and again, so he has never had to deal with true legal jeopardy. Until now. The Mueller investigation is the closest he's come to true jeopardy. He won't be able to buy his way out this time, and that's why he is obsessed with Mueller and the "witch hunt."

    ETA: Have you lived in NYC a long time? What's the general view of Trump from your associates?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    One odd thing about Trump is the way he seems to go out of his way to demolish the carefully assembled apologetics of his own staff. It happens again and again, but I'll give one example so it's clear what I'm talking about.

    After Trump's surprise firing of Comey.......blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
    Surprise firing of Comey? You're kidding, right? You mean right after the "surprise", rather detailed recommendation from the acting head of the DOJ, Rod Rosenstein, to fire Comey? I see no reason to read any further. If your opening couple of sentences are completely dishonest, why should I listen to the rest of what you have to say?
    Every life matters

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    Trump eschews briefings. He does not get intel on the golf course or on twitter. He is a part time president,

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    He can say anything he wishes because his base believes him, or at least allows it because they want to get liberals. It’s been voiced on here many times, in different ways, but that’s the basic premise.

    He enjoys humiliating people, it keeps them in their place. He alone can do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I'm going to go with Door #2 -- Trump does this stuff, over and over again, deliberately to show that "You're not the boss of me". All of his life he has believed that he is above the law, above following the rules, above the restrictions that us petty peons adhere to. His money allows him to buy his way out of troubles, time and again, so he has never had to deal with true legal jeopardy. Until now. The Mueller investigation is the closest he's come to true jeopardy. He won't be able to buy his way out this time, and that's why he is obsessed with Mueller and the "witch hunt."

    ETA: Have you lived in NYC a long time? What's the general view of Trump from your associates?
    Possibly or possibly by garnering the attention he feels he is taking away the DNC's opportunity to build a movement via free airwaves. Worked before, so not sure why he wouldn't think it will work again. He is more blustery in election seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Possibly or possibly by garnering the attention he feels he is taking away the DNC's opportunity to build a movement via free airwaves. Worked before, so not sure why he wouldn't think it will work again. He is more blustery in election seasons.
    I dunno; he was blowing at gale force all of 2017, as I recall. But good point -- he is a master at getting the media to focus its attention on him.

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    Because he's a Moron
    ONE-N-DONE, YOU GOT PLAYED; Time To Play-On
    Remember ... ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES ... So STFU Bitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I dunno; he was blowing at gale force all of 2017, as I recall. But good point -- he is a master at getting the media to focus its attention on him.
    Maybe it was the media's gale force winds blowing his perfectly groomed hair about. If the left wing media wanted to get his goad, they only need not mention him a single time on air, in print, or in pixels in any of their coverage for a month or so. Dude would stroke out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Surprise firing of Comey? You're kidding, right? You mean right after the "surprise", rather detailed recommendation from the acting head of the DOJ, Rod Rosenstein, to fire Comey? I see no reason to read any further. If your opening couple of sentences are completely dishonest, why should I listen to the rest of what you have to say?
    Boy...are you fucking clueless.

    Hitler had his.

    Trump has his.

    Little people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I'm going to go with Door #2 -- Trump does this stuff, over and over again, deliberately to show that "You're not the boss of me". All of his life he has believed that he is above the law, above following the rules, above the restrictions that us petty peons adhere to. His money allows him to buy his way out of troubles, time and again, so he has never had to deal with true legal jeopardy. Until now. The Mueller investigation is the closest he's come to true jeopardy. He won't be able to buy his way out this time, and that's why he is obsessed with Mueller and the "witch hunt."

    ETA: Have you lived in NYC a long time? What's the general view of Trump from your associates?
    I was in NYC for high school, then went away for college, started my career elsewhere, and have only been back for a couple. My associates are mostly economic conservatives, so they're predisposed towards Republicans, but regard Trump as a conman and a scumbag. I don't know anyone in my professional circles who supports the guy.

    Anyway, the way you frame it sounds downright sociopathic -- like a little boy who pees in the middle of the room just to defy those who are trying to toilet train him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    One odd thing about Trump is the way he seems to go out of his way to demolish the carefully assembled apologetics of his own staff. It happens again and again, but I'll give one example so it's clear what I'm talking about.

    After Trump's surprise firing of Comey, his staff scrambled for an acceptable explanation. They were smart enough to realize that firing the head of the FBI at a time when he was investigating election interference that seemed to implicate the president would look like obstruction of justice. Trump hadn't given them advance warning, so they didn't have a chance to get out ahead of that with a media playbook, but within a day or so, they'd settled on the talking point that it had nothing to do with the Russia thing, and instead was about the misbehavior Rosenstein had highlighted, involving Comey abusing his office to hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign. For a last-second phony justification, it was pretty clever: Rosenstein's memo cited facts liberals couldn't dispute, and provided an explanation for firing that had nothing to do with the Russia thing, so it wouldn't be obstruction of justice. Sure, everyone knew it was a lie, but it gave the usual right-wing talking heads something to pretend they believed when they made the rounds of the shows, and the only thing that could definitively disprove it is if Trump came right out and admitted he'd done it because of the Russia thing.

    Well, as you know, that's just what happened. After letting his team humiliate themselves pushing a well-crafted lie to try to protect him, he went on TV and admitted he'd made the decision to fire Comey before seeing the Rosenstein memo, and that he was thinking about the Russia thing when he did so.

    The question is why Trump does that sort of thing. My initial thought was that he was basically acting like an abusive boyfriend, who likes to hit his girl in front of his friends, as a way of bragging about how much she has submitted to him. Maybe Trump just got off on making his press secretary, his professional apologists in the media, and all the little forum denizens look foolish, by letting them commit to talking points and then stomping on them for all to see.

    Maybe that's not right, though. Maybe it's about more than the sadistic thrill of smacking around those with so little self respect that they're still making excuses for him. Maybe it's about sending a message to others -- a message that he is completely unconstrained. As Machievelli wrote, "it's better to be feared than loved." Maybe this is a way of keeping the right-wingers fearful... if he'll casually kneecap conservatives even when they're trying to help him, imagine what he'll do if they cross him. Moreover, it sends the signal that he won't be constrained by trying to stick to colorably defensible actions. If you want to signal your power, it's not enough to fire Comey for a nominal reason that would be legitimate-- you need to show you can fire him for openly illegitimate reasons, and nobody on the right will have the balls to do anything about it.
    If Hillary had been elected, her first order of business would have been firing Comey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Surprise firing of Comey? You're kidding, right?
    Why would you think I was kidding? It came as a big surprise, not just to people in the general public, but to the media, Comey, other major Republicans, and most of Trump's own staff.

    You mean right after the "surprise", rather detailed recommendation from the acting head of the DOJ, Rod Rosenstein, to fire Comey?
    Yes. Although Rosenstein correctly thought Comey should be fired for abusing his office to try to hurt Hillary Clinton, nobody thought Trump would agree with that, since he'd not only praised Comey for that very behavior, but had kept him on in the new administration while fully aware of it. That's what made it so laughable when the apologist staffers settled on the talking point that Trump had fired Comey due to that memo. But, as we now know, even Trump couldn't claim that with a straight face, and came right out and admitted he'd decided on the firing before that, because of the Russia thing.

    I see no reason to read any further
    I don't see any reason for you to do so, either. You won't get anything out of it. But if you find yourself in a more honest mindset later, maybe give it a try then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Possibly or possibly by garnering the attention he feels he is taking away the DNC's opportunity to build a movement via free airwaves. Worked before, so not sure why he wouldn't think it will work again. He is more blustery in election seasons.
    Certainly his constant misbehavior dominates the airwaves, displacing policy discussions (which obviously wouldn't benefit him), and denying Democrats air time. So, I suppose that could be it. It worked spectacularly during the primary, where he absolutely destroyed all his "deep bench" Republican competitors, by becoming the only thing anyone was talking about. And it worked, albeit very narrowly, during the general election, where he won a big enough minority of votes that, with the help of the Electoral College, he squeaked into the White House. Is he being that calculating? I guess in November we get to see if that strategy can work longer term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Controlled Opposition View Post
    If Hillary had been elected, her first order of business would have been firing Comey.
    I expect not. I think that, like Obama before her, she'd have felt constrained not to do so. If she'd fired him for his abuse of his office in 2016, the Republicans would have treated it as prima facie evidence of obstruction of justice, and using their majority in the House and Senate they'd have impeached her right off the bat for it. Republican presidents can get away with that kind of thing, but a Democrat needs to be careful.

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