Hi -- New here.

[ThatOwlWoman]

I'll 'fess up here -- I chose the pic because I thought I looked unusually good in it. I'm pretty generic in real life.

Nah. Beauty and brains both. Been gone since morning; reading all the posts since then. I'm really enjoying watching you serve up Roast Ass on a silver platter. lol

[SouthernUnkleRitchie]

고맙습니다

She said, go fuck youself jack.

[SouthernUnkleRitchie]

I've never posted here under any other name. Today's my first day.

Never trust legion.

[evince]

Sounds like what you are arguing here, Grump...is that a capitalistic society such as we have is not up to the job of providing adequate medical care for everyone.

The solution will probably not be found in how to move the deck chairs around. The solution will more likely be: Don't sail on this particular ship.

I think capitalism is...ummm...capital. I am a capitalist.

But if there is no way to provide for adequate health care for EVERYONE using the capitalistic system we have...I am for modifying it as much as necessary...OR SHIT CANNING IT COMPLETELY IF NECESSARY.

Adequate health care for all is a MUST...and it should be in place by yesterday.

its all a matter of maintenance


capitalism needs the proper fettering


the founders knew that


Its why the wrote the socialistic program of the post office right into the constitution


and raised money to build post roads right away



there is NO AUTOMATIC SETTING for this country


it needs maintenance

but Capitalism well fettered and maintained is the ONLY path to human freedom

[ThatOwlWoman]

He’s had no meaningful dialogue, your assessment is correct. It’s why I suggested a debate.

I noticed he ran like a scalded cat from *that* idea. Wonder why?

So far it looks like the RW dudes can only focus on her sock-ness and sound mighty envious. Jack-the-chameleon can only focus on "hotness" -- which of course is just another way to slot her into a lower-than-them judgmental category based on appearance.

[Legion]

Sounds like what you are arguing here, Grump...is that a capitalistic society such as we have is not up to the job of providing adequate medical care for everyone.

It's not a constitutional requirement for the government to provide free health care for everyone. If you feel so charitable about those who lack "adequate medical care," why aren't you stepping up to provide it yourself?

[Legion]

Never trust legion.

I didn't ask anyone to trust me, did I?

[ThatOwlWoman]

I think we could do it without cutting other essential spending by raising taxes. Keep in mind that, by the standards of wealthy nations generally, we have radically low taxes in this country. Even before Trump's upper-class tax cut went through, we were paying an effective total rate of only around 26% of GDP, where the average for the OECD is 34%, and it's more like 37%, average, for the non-US wealthy OECD countries.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...nternationally

We can easily fund Medicare for all just by bringing effective tax rates up part-way towards wealth-nation norms. For example, taking us from 26% to GDP to 34% (leaving us below the new OECD average and well below most wealthy nations), that would bring in about another $1.6 trillion per year.

Now, of course, that would mean more money out of people's pockets for taxes. But the flip side would be less money out of their pockets for health insurance/healthcare. Keep in mind that Medicare-for-all-style systems tend to be cheaper. For example, Canada has Medicare for all and spends half what we do, per capita, on healthcare:

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...lth-u-s-spends

I don't think we can bring our spending down to Canadian levels, but if we bring them even half-way down to that (while hopefully improving our public health stats part-way to Canadian levels in the process), that's a big savings, and most people are going to come out ahead: the extra tax money they get hit for will be less than the healthcare savings they get.

Of course, some will come out on the other side. Even though, on average, people will come out ahead, and far more people will be on the plus side than the minus, some higher earners would pay more under the new system, net (thus the strong opposition from advocates for the aristocracy), and so would some who already effectively have something as good as "Medicare for All" (unless it's structured so they get a commensurate tax credit).

Excellent. Another benefit for U.S. corporations -- they would no longer need to offer health insurance to employees, saving billions per year. Or if they wanted they could offer supplemental plans as a hiring/retention incentive. Rather than taxing individuals more, raise corporate taxes to cover what is needed for a Medicare-for-all plan. I am not a numbers cruncher but I suspect that after being off the hook for health insurance premiums, corporations would still come out ahead even with slightly higher taxes.

[canceled.2021.2]

My own plan is not to do thread bans. It's easy enough to pass by posts that have nothing to offer, and you never know when someone might have something interesting to add.

That is great. However, after years of doing this, I have found that very few liberals have anything interesting to add to conversations

[Frank Apisa]

its all a matter of maintenance


capitalism needs the proper fettering


the founders knew that


Its why the wrote the socialistic program of the post office right into the constitution


and raised money to build post roads right away



there is NO AUTOMATIC SETTING for this country


it needs maintenance

but Capitalism well fettered and maintained is the ONLY path to human freedom

I grok what you are saying, Evince...and I agree with lots of it.

I am wary of that "ONLY" word, though.

I suspect there are MANY paths to human freedom...and "free enterprise" (one element of capitalism, fettered or unfettered) is presently very important to...ummm...making things function well. But free enterprise is only one element of capitalism.

In any case, at some point in human existence...the right to wear certain clothes or chevron designations may become just as important as money accumulation...especially accumulating it the way we do in a capitalistic society.

[Frank Apisa]

I noticed he ran like a scalded cat from *that* idea. Wonder why?

So far it looks like the RW dudes can only focus on her sock-ness and sound mighty envious. Jack-the-chameleon can only focus on "hotness" -- which of course is just another way to slot her into a lower-than-them judgmental category based on appearance.

I'd like you and Phantasmal to realize that ultimately, Oneuli ultimately is the person who will decide if she will debate....whom she will debate...and the circumstances of any debate that occurs.

In any case, as has been mentioned...DEBATE is what IS happening...and Oneuli is kicking ass.

[evince]

It's not a constitutional requirement for the government to provide free health care for everyone. If you feel so charitable about those who lack "adequate medical care," why aren't you stepping up to provide it yourself?

but like the founders planned we can vote it in


and we will

when you shits cant cheat people put to their rights to vote anymore

[evince]

I'd like you and Phantasmal to realize that ultimately, Oneuli ultimately is the person who will decide if she will debate....whom she will debate...and the circumstances of any debate that occurs.

In any case, as has been mentioned...DEBATE is what IS happening...and Oneuli is kicking ass.

well said

we debate all the time

why get one on ones going?

[Phantasmal]

I'd like you and Phantasmal to realize that ultimately, Oneuli ultimately is the person who will decide if she will debate....whom she will debate...and the circumstances of any debate that occurs.

In any case, as has been mentioned...DEBATE is what IS happening...and Oneuli is kicking ass.

I knew Grumpy would never agree, it’s why I didn’t purpose it to Oneuli, I thought you would figure out my cleverness.

[Phantasmal]

well said

we debate all the time

why get one on ones going?

They are interesting and there are guidelines.