The myth of voter fraud

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Alias said:
They don't care about fraud. They care about losing and want to make sure they win. The left wants everyone to vote no matter if they are felons, underage, illegal immigrants, whatever. They are desperate this time.
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Cite the number of felons, underage, and illegal immigrants who have voted fraudulently.
 
Damocles said:
Actually, if it exists we wouldn't be able to as the law forbids the collection of the information that could be used to verify it. Most often the fraud that can be found, because of the types of information that can be collected, is solely when somebody votes for a dead person who is still on the roles. This one happens both more often, and less often than each party thinks. It will become even more prevalent if we go to mail in ballots only (which for some reason the republicans seem to love, but is the most open to fraud including vote selling.) Anyway, it is a rather simple step that would reassure voters of the validity of the vote and would make such things as voting for dead people much more difficult. So long as the card is free and obtainable I see no reason for the constant fight on this one, it is a relatively straight forward thing. Nothing like an ounce of prevention, IMO. When you can see the problem before it happens, or see how easily it can be done, simple steps to stop it should be the norm rather than a battle. Better machines with paper trails, for instance.
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So you want to "prevent" a crime that is already extremely rare by placing additional burdens on voters?
 
Remember, the left always needs a victim and the poor are the convenient victim front to allow illegal voting.
 
dixon76710 said:
Nonsense. Legal American voters can simply get a free, state ID.
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As has already been shown, getting a "free" ID is not simple, or free.

Explain why a legal American voter should have to be subjected to unnecessary burdensome government regulation in order to exercise the most precious right of all.
 
Alias said:
Remember, the left always needs a victim and the poor are the convenient victim front to allow illegal voting.
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Cite the number of illegal votes that voter ID laws would have prevented.
 
\\(())// said:
So you want to "prevent" a crime that is already extremely rare by placing additional burdens on voters?
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Again, when all it takes to claim you are a voter is a copy (a copy mind you, this is extremely easy to manufacture) of a utility bill the reality is evidence of such fraud is impossible to collect. You cannot ask them for more identification than that, it's against the law. Which is convenient for people who want to say, "Where is the evidence" but not really a logical reason not to take steps to ensure the validity of the vote. In reality it may be that such things are far more prevalent than we imagine, and the way the left fights a simple and rather fair verification process it seems that they may actually believe it happens in their favor more often than not.

Anyway, I also want things that the "right" tends to fight, like better machines with a solid paper trail. (The machines we use in our county have a paper trail, including the touch screen devices, which are rarely used as people prefer the other machines that you feed your ballot into.)
 
\\(())// said:
Cite the number of felons, underage, and illegal immigrants who have voted fraudulently.
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How would we know that they voted fraudulently? Would be like trying to cite the # of drivers who exceeded the speed limit yesterday. Using your simplistic logic, you would count the # of speeding violations and conclude that this was the number of people who exceeded the speed limit yesterday. When clearly, most people who exceed the speed are never caught. And we dont have radar guns that detect voter fraud.
 
Damocles said:
Again, when all it takes to claim you are a voter is a copy (a copy mind you, this is extremely easy to manufacture) of a utility bill the reality is evidence of such fraud is impossible to collect. You cannot ask them for more identification than that, it's against the law. Which is convenient for people who want to say, "Where is the evidence" but not really a logical reason not to take steps to ensure the validity of the vote. In reality it may be that such things are far more prevalent than we imagine, and the way the left fights a simple and rather fair verification process it seems that they may actually believe it happens in their favor more often than not. Anyway, I also want things that the "right" tends to fight, like better machines with a solid paper trail. (The machines we use in our county have a paper trail, including the touch screen devices, which are rarely used as people prefer the other machines that you feed your ballot into.)
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You make some vaild points.

Yet the fact remains that the spate of voter ID laws currently being pushed by righties will not combat voter fraud.

Even the Supreme Court said as much.

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, who has been aggressive in pursuing election fraud, has prosecuted 22 cases over six years.


Not one of these cases would have been prevented by requiring a photo ID, according to testimony provided by the state attorney general's office at a hearing on this issue.

A good example of "the phamtom menace" can be found by looking at a tight Texas House race in 2004. The outcome was contested, and every vote in question was scrutinized. In the end, out of 41,000 votes cast, only 105 votes were deemed "fraudulent."


Of these "fraudulent" votes, 96 were by people voting in the wrong precinct. More importantly, there were no cases of voter impersonation at all.


The House member who led the investigation said: "The vast bulk of votes in question is based on technical, and apparently unintentional, violations of election law."



http://www.chron.com/opinion/outloo...ation-is-a-phantom-worry-in-Texas-1639656.php
 
Damocles said:
Not any more of a burden than registering to begin with.
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Untrue.

More than 21 million citizens — 11 percent of the population — do not have government ID cards. Many of them are poor, or elderly, or black and Hispanic and could have a hard time navigating the bureaucracy to get a card.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/the-myth-of-voter-fraud.html


A photo ID requirement discourages voting while doing nothing to protect elections.


Election fraud and voter fraud do exist, but the simple fact is that requiring a government-issued picture ID wouldn't stop it.


http://www.chron.com/opinion/outloo...ation-is-a-phantom-worry-in-Texas-1639656.php
 
\\(())// said:
Voter ID laws preclude people from voting who are legally registered .......
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Your making my point for me. Statistics counted people of voting age withut ID, NOT "legally registered" voters without ID. And it doesnt "preclude" them and instead simply requires them to obtain an ID.
 
dixon76710 said:
Your making my point for me. Statistics counted people of voting age withut ID, NOT "legally registered" voters without ID. And it doesnt "preclude" them and instead simply requires them to obtain an ID.
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Did you mean "you're", genius?

Cite the source of your assertion that "Statistics counted people of voting age withut ID, NOT "legally registered" voters without ID."

The ID may be free, but what is required to obtain one?

Passport? Not free.

Certified copies of birth certificates? Not free.

You haven't shown a shred of justification for imposing burdensome government regulation on law-abiding Americans who want to vote legally.

The truth is that a tiny number of voter impersonation cases is no excuse for putting obstacles in the way of voting.

For voters, even if an ID is free, getting the documents to obtain it — such as a birth certificate — can be expensive and difficult.

People born out of state who lack transportation, work multiple jobs, have disabilities, or are home-bound or poor can’t access or afford this paperwork.

Now that many states have reduced hours and locations of motor vehicle departments and other agencies because of budget cutbacks, getting an ID can be a battle.

In Wisconsin, 25 percent of DMV offices are open one day a month or less, and fewer than half are open at least 20 hours a week.


http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opin...#ixzz1i2KDDiZG
 
How about having a registered voter attest to knowing the individual who doesn't have proper ID. I would imagine most unregistered voters know someone who could join them.
 
evince said:
that is a lie Damo and too keep pretending its true is nothing more than accepting lies on your part
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Do poor people smoke cigarettes, drink booze, get tattoos, etc. Why can they spend money on that, yet getting a photo ID is such a burdern?
 
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