CA Prop. 8 shot down

  • Thread starter Thread starter WinterBorn
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Okay. A brother and sister want to get married. Okay?

And there are reasons for not allowing siblings to marry, not the least of which would be an increase in the likelihood of children with birth defects.

You have yet to tell us what adverse effect gay marriage would have on our nation or our society.
 
Marriage is a social institution, not a biological one.

Exactly, it was about children, but for property rights. It was social contract, women were once considered possessions in most societies, they had dowries to entice good husbands, biology was secondary.
 
And there are reasons for not allowing siblings to marry, not the least of which would be an increase in the likelihood of children with birth defects.

You have yet to tell us what adverse effect gay marriage would have on our nation or our society.

Well according to some posters brother and sister have the correct biological parts...

There are very few siblings that would choose to marry, but it is their thing, they are aware of the risks involved, I say live and let live. I was never attracted to my brother, it gives me willies, and the thought grosses me out, but apparently it works for a rare few.
 
Well, that was in te olden days when marriage was intended to deal with the potential of procreation. Now that you want procreation to be irrelevant to marriage, such genetic concerns become irrelevant. And as well, of course, they have no applicability in the case of the single mother and grandmother raising a family together.

I never said it wasnt irrelevant; but instead said that the Government has never made it a relevance and your mother / Grandmother relationship has been answered.



The single mother and grandmother truely love each other. Two platonic friends can love each other

You keep forgetting about the intamacy.



No one claimed it did. You kicked the shit outta that strawman.

Then why are you worried about it?

Men didnt marry them and make them their wives. They didnt form families with them.They obtained sexual gratification from them.

You might want to research this, prior to making a comment and appearing to be uneducated.
 
And there are reasons for not allowing siblings to marry, not the least of which would be an increase in the likelihood of children with birth defects.

You have yet to tell us what adverse effect gay marriage would have on our nation or our society.

Too much inbreeding in any species is not good For the species as has been identified in the wild and at zoos. It is often why in nature what makes the males roam. When humans started to form societies a lot of that changed, well, except men still "roam"
 
Fortunately the majority cannot vote away the rights of the minority. Unless they get the required number of votes to amend their constitution.

Cant vote away what has never existed.

heterosexual couples are the only couples who can produce biological offspring of the couple
http://www.courts.wa.gov/newsinfo/content/pdf/759341opn.pdf

We are dealing here with legislation which involves one of the basic civil rights of man. Marriage and procreation are fundamental to the very existence and survival of the race.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=316&invol=535


The institution of marriage as a union man and woman, uniquely involving the procreation and rearing of children within a family, is as old as the book of Genesis...

"Marriage and procreation are fundamental to the very existence and survival of the race." This historic institution manifestly is more deeply founded than the asserted contemporary concept of marriage and societal interests for which petitioners contend. The due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment is not a charter for restructuring it by judicial legislation
http://www.cas.umt.edu/phil/faculty/Walton/bakrvnel.htm

i]t is not surprising that the decision to marry has been placed on the same level of importance as decisions relating to procreation, childbirth, child rearing, and family relationships. . . .

t would make little sense to recognize a right of privacy with respect to other matters of family life and not with respect to the decision to enter the relationship that is the foundation of the family in our society.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=434&invol=374
 
Too much inbreeding in any species is not good For the species as has been identified in the wild and at zoos. It is often why in nature what makes the males roam. When humans started to form societies a lot of that changed, well, except men still "roam"

While men are more likely to roam, it is not always us who do that. I've known a female "roamer" or two.
 
Exactly, it was about children, but for property rights. It was social contract, women were once considered possessions in most societies, they had dowries to entice good husbands, biology was secondary.


Maybe secondary but still elemental. Gay lovers werent considered property or have dowries to entice good husbands. Because

"matrimonium is an institution involving a mother, mater. The idea implicit in the word is that a man takes a woman in marriage, in matrimonium ducere, so that he may have children by her."


Yes, the old fashioned notions of the different roles to be played by men and women, no longer have any applicability in modern society. But the limitation of only men becoming fathers by turning a woman into a mother, isnt old fashioned notions of the differing roles of men and women but is intead the differing biological roles of men and women in procreation.

§ 160.204. PRESUMPTION OF PATERNITY.
(a) A man is presumed to be the father of a child if:
(1) he is married to the mother of the child and the child is born during the marriage;....

just as it was, thousands of years ago in BC Rome

Mater semper certa est ("The mother is always certain")
"pater semper incertus est" ("The father is always uncertain")
"pater est, quem nuptiae demonstrant" ("father is to whom marriage points")
 
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The way our nation is set up protects the minority from tyranny of the majority.

Otherwise the civil rights movement would have been dead in the water in the south.

There is no tyranny by the majority in this case. What we have is the will of the people being overruled by one Federal judge. That is wrong. The fact you can't see that it's wrong says a lot about your view of the American process.
 
There is no tyranny by the majority in this case. What we have is the will of the people being overruled by one Federal judge. That is wrong. The fact you can't see that it's wrong says a lot about your view of the American process.

the judge stated that the law created by Prop 8 was unconstitutional. So apparently he disagrees with you.
 
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A social institution, limited to men and women because of the biology of procreation.

That limitation is based on social issues that are centuries old. The definition of marriage has changed before, and now it needs to change again.


BTW, why do you refuse to answer my question?
 
Surely you could have done better, then trying to equate car insurance and marriages??
.

Nooooo its equating encouraging all owners of motor vehicles operated upon the public streets to have auto liability insurance because they have the potential of being liable for an auto accident, with encouraging all heterosexuals to marry because they have the potential to procreate.
You seem drawn to irrelevancy like a moth to a flame.
 
So it is implied government force, and an attempt at social engineering, with no valid reason?


No, its for more children born into homes with both their mother and father present to provide and care for them and fewer born into homes with only one or none of those parents present. To improve the well being of the children.
 
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