So Why The Double Standard?

The Chinese had an exceedingly hard time in the US especially in the 19th century, they were to all intents and purpose slaves working on the railways and generally doing all the shit jobs. Coolies, a word that originally came from Urdu, were bought and sold in much the same way as black slaves. The essential difference though, to my mind, is that the Chinese have transcended their slave mentality and are now in the ascendancy, I'm interested in your opinion as to why that hasn't happened to the same extent with the African diaspora in the USA?

And who's to say that if given the opportunity, that a descendant of one of the Chinese, wouldn't conveniently slit your throat, for you saying the wrong thing. So confident you are, that all is forgiven and everybody is singing kumbayah. You underestimate the resentment felt far and wide. I'd tread lightly , were I you. Isn't that another prime example of "white privilege"....thinking that "by now", you'd be forgiven of any and all wrong doing on your part. You people continue to slay me.
 
That is hardly an intellectual thesis to say that you would offer violence as some kind of a cogent argument.
And you're a stupid bitch too. You think your white skin relieves you of any indemnity? Violence? As a kind of cogent argument? It seems America was founded upon violence. Violence is the glue, apparently, holding everything together...whether, in the confines of a jail or on the battlefield of war. Live by the sword, die by it.
 
What a drama queen. No one is thinking of forcibly wresting any power from anyone. One would hope that you would arrive at the conclusion of "power sharing". Some of you are paranoid that someone is trying to take something (especially "money") from you. And many of you only have it because you acquired it through "hook or crook".
And ironically enough, we're not like "you"....enslavement doesn't enter our "collective mind"...I guess it has to do with DNA.
Like I said before, I don't have a problem with white people....I rather like many, and don't think that the world would be better off without them. Unlike you. And you, contrary to your belief have no power to speak of...with your 1/16th self.


poet: "White privilege is ingrained in the fabric of America. There is no litigation against what some claim to be a phantom..... we can never move forward, as a society, with you refusing to relinquish power, position and privilege, at all cost."


1. You stated the white privilege is ingrained, and nothing can litigate it.
2. You then state, whites relinquishing power and privilege is all that could make things right.
3. Now you are claiming that you haven't been dramatic and I am paranoid.
4. Then you speak of "shared power" but isn't that precisely what our founding principle is... that ALL MEN are created equal and endowed rights?
5. And I find it hard to believe that enslavement would never enter your collective (or individual) minds, given your DNA.
 
And who's to say that if given the opportunity, that a descendant of one of the Chinese, wouldn't conveniently slit your throat, for you saying the wrong thing. So confident you are, that all is forgiven and everybody is singing kumbayah. You underestimate the resentment felt far and wide. I'd tread lightly , were I you. Isn't that another prime example of "white privilege"....thinking that "by now", you'd be forgiven of any and all wrong doing on your part. You people continue to slay me.

I was genuinely asking you a question but you've chosen to retreat into a convenient "cloak of invisibility" that avoids answering any curiosity on my part.
 

poet: "White privilege is ingrained in the fabric of America. There is no litigation against what some claim to be a phantom..... we can never move forward, as a society, with you refusing to relinquish power, position and privilege, at all cost."


1. You stated the white privilege is ingrained, and nothing can litigate it.

Precisely. Too many people depend on it, and value it above their own mothers.



2. You then state, whites relinquishing power and privilege is all that could make things right.
I did not say that.

3. Now you are claiming that you haven't been dramatic and I am paranoid.

I haven't claimed any such thing.


4. Then you speak of "shared power" but isn't that precisely what our founding principle is... that ALL MEN are created equal and endowed rights?

You're confused....on your own.

5. And I find it hard to believe that enslavement would never enter your collective (or individual) minds, given your DNA.

I'm not white. Enslavement of human beings would never enter my mind.
 
Think of it as karma.

I prefer to think of it as avoiding an awkward question, so I will ask it again in a slightly different manner? Why do you think that Black Americans have not succeeded in the same way that many other ethnic communities have done? It seems to me that many Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Polish, Italians, Indians and Pakistanis have transcended the inherent racism in the US even though they arrived well after the African diaspora.
 
This is an article from the Sunday Independent, a South African newspaper, that has many parallels with the situation in the USA today.

Self-doubt keeps us in chains (Source)

July 4 2011 at 10:28am
By Sipho Seepe and Thandwa Mthembu

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EXPECTATIONS: Winnie Madikizela Mandela, former wife of Nelson Mandela, casts her vote during the South African municipal elections in Soweto on May 18. The writer say that the general anti-intellectual stance has reduced voting to a mere exercise that should produce technical services.

A serious bout of black self-doubt and a sense of entitlement stand in the way of South Africa’s prosperity. We continue to display morbid symptoms that prevent us from forging a new society. Gramci’s famous quote; “The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear” sheds some light on our present predicament. We are caught up in the beliefs that apartheid bestowed on us. The symptoms generally manifest themselves as disengagement from mainstream politics, cynicism, the rise of technocracy and corruption.

The self-proclaimed voices of reason project South Africa as either at the crossroads or headed for a banana republic. Theirs is a refrain rooted in Afro-pessimism of the kind we heard under apartheid. The seeds of self-doubt were planted then. Apartheid masters did not tire to remind us that we are lucky – that our oppression was well-intentioned and for our benefit. They pointed out what self-government has done to the continent by enumerating the failures of African governments north of the Limpopo. Indeed, we were oppressed for our own sake.

This colonial imprint is prevalent, and perhaps acute, among the educated class whose role is limited to fault finding. Those who howl the loudest often have nothing pragmatic to offer. For their effort they are rewarded handsomely with headlines and positions on Boards of Directors. Their behaviour is reminiscent of the house slaves whose perspectives were intrinsically linked to their masters’ and who could not imagine a world without their tutelage.
This is not meant to pour scorna as social critique. If anything, we need ruthless criticism. But meaningful contribution does not end with fault finding. It requires one to roll up one’s sleeves and dirty one’s hands.

It involves problem-posing and problem-solving. No successful organisation or nation can be built on negativity, self-doubt or harping on its failings. Management guru Peter Drucker puts it rather elegantly when he says “the unique purpose of organisation is to make strength productive ... one cannot build on weaknesses. To achieve results, one has to use all the available strengths ... these strengths are true opportunities.”

Unfortunately, we have been socialised into doubting ourselves. As a result we focus more on negatives than positives, making it difficult to maximise on our potential and opportunities that present themselves. We need to “counter the tendency toward negativity with an abundance of positivity”. This is the only way we can uplift ourselves and nourish a positive outlook.

Hopefully, the recent municipal elections will debunk the notion that our democracy is in crisis. In coming out in their millions to vote in this year’s municipal elections, South Africans have once again disproved the prophets of doom who routinely claim that South Africa is on the brink of a catastrophe.
When the regime-dislodging Arab spring revolutions hit Tunisia and Egypt, the peddlers of doom were parachuted into our TV sets to do what comes naturally – to take us downward on the spiral of negativity. Any suggestion that the South African context is different and complex was dismissed as either an acute form of denialism or wishful thinking. If anything, what is presented as analysis is nothing more than a cacophonous expression of racial prejudice against anything run by black people.

Evidently, South Africans do not share the above apocalyptic visions. They still hold the view that change can be effected through the democratic process. Interestingly so, as soon as the campaign started, we saw a major reduction of protests. The above notwithstanding, there is no denying that we are also witnessing a major democratic deficit in our politics.

This presents itself in how democracy is understood. In this deficit model, democratic engagement starts and ends in casting one’s vote. This reflects that the general anti-intellectual stance has reduced voting to a mere exercise that should produce technical services. Is it any wonder that some communities vowed not to vote because their vote has not translated into material and social benefits. Individuals have been bold to state they have voted thrice without the vote translating into a house, access to water and/or electricity.

This limited understanding has spawned the “what’s in it for me” syndrome and is unfortunately widely shared across class lines. In this (il)logic there would be no need for an Oppenheimer, Motsepe, or a Mandela to vote because no material benefit would accrue from their action. The notion of doing something for something greater than ourselves is lost. We have forgotten easily and quickly that the right to vote is an outcome of sacrifices by many courageous men and women who not only faced torture, imprisonment and exile but also paid the highest price through state sanctioned executions and assassinations. This is how they are repaid for their sacrifices! Understandably, the government’s provision of houses and of increasing access to electricity and water was well-intentioned.
It is part of the transformation agenda aimed at redressing the apartheid-generated racial, social and economic inequalities. Unfortunately this noble intention has been vulgarised into a vote-catching exercise. The vote-service-delivery discourse is paralysing as it encourages people to stand on the sidelines and expect that government will be an answer to all their problems.

It does not suggest any action from the recipient of “service” and “delivery”, but an idle wait for these. The sooner we dispense with this discourse the better.
Nothing short of a heavy dose of black consciousness will address this sense of dependency and en- titlement. The black consciousness (BC) philosophy induced pride and dignity in black people and demanded of black people to become their own liberators. In doing so, it located the possibility of change within the black community.

Under apartheid, black people’s resignation to racial domination encouraged a dependency on white leadership. Today’s dependency is on government and takes the form of entitlement. It is an entitlement that enslaves a majority of our people to feel powerless in changing their lot. The effect is that they fail to appreciate their psychological complicity in remaining in the conditions in which they find themselves.

The vote-service-delivery discourse is the cannon-fodder for this debilitating condition. Sadly, many liberation-inducing aspects of BC legacy have waned with the years. The victim mentality has crept in, and the elements of self-respect and pride have largely disappeared. We are of the opinion that there are many policies in the country that seem to encourage indolence, entitlement and self-disrespect. These include the notion that to be a successful business person, one needs to be well connected.

This has resulted in the stultification of the most innovative brains, making it difficult to come up with new and innovative business ideas. Empowerment deals that are not invested in new ideas won’t take us forward. The future is always in the making. We need to rid ourselves of the morbid symptoms of self-doubt, cynicism, disengagement, and self-imposed paralysis if we are to forge a new society.


Professors Seepe and Mthembu are political analysts
 
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I'm curious... I happen to be 1/16 African-American... is that enough black blood for me to use the N-word and not be racist? Obama is half white, but he looks black... so is it alright for someone like Obama, who looks more black, to use the N-word? Does this go by whether you look black, or how much black blood you have? Maybe it's one of those 'purist' things, you have to be all black and look all black, to be able to use the N-word? Maybe if you have "one drop" of white blood, it forbids you from using the word? Is that how it works, poet?


Forget political correctness, if that bothers you. ("You" is plural.) How about not using the word simply out of common courtesy and the manners you all were hopefully brought up with?
 
How do you figure you are 1/6th ANYTHING? You have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, 16 great-great grandparents. You can be 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16... I don't comprehend how you could ever be 1/6th, unless there is some pretty kinky shit happening in your family tree. Which of your ancestors was white? Maybe I can help you figure this out?

Back to the argument... I don't feel the need to say the n-word, I was just curious as to whether I could, and not be considered a racist. Does it go by your actual skin color... if you look black enough, it's okay? Or is it your bloodline? And does your bloodline have to be pure? I'm just trying to get my mind around this... you claim it's not a racist and offensive word in some cases, and in other cases it is reprehensible... I'm just trying to figure out where we draw the distinctions?

As for your membership in the good ole boys club.... if you know of such a place and they won't let you join because you are black, the ACLU will be glad to take your case pro bono, as this would be a flagrant violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Also, if you know of any business or institution exercising "white privilege" this can be litigated as well. I wasn't sure you were aware of the new laws, they've only been in effect for the past 47 years.

Are you kidding? We discussed one particular instance right on this forum a couple of years ago.

Philadelphia Private Swim Club Forces Out Black Children
 
No. I don't use the word at all in any form. I'm just trying to learn the rules of the game. If a black person can use the word "nigger", but a white person can't, can a white person use the term "white nigger" because it's okay for Robert Byrd to use it?

Inquiring minds want to know... what's the white person word that's equivalent to the n-word?
 
The word should not be used.

To my mind, it is far better to use the word nigger endlessly rather than the euphemism N-word until it totally loses its potency. The gay community has done exactly that with queer, fag and homo to a large extent. They are only words at the end of the day, using a circumlocution is ultimately self defeating.
 
You should be thankful for a lot of things besides being thankful you're not me. You should be thankful you were born in the USA instead of some hell hole where 99% of black people are born. People like you are just natural whiners. You're mentally ill.

You just wrote that 99% of black people are born in hell holes, and you have the nerve to wonder why anyone would call you a racist.
 
You just wrote that 99% of black people are born in hell holes, and you have the nerve to wonder why anyone would call you a racist.

Exactly.... I was born into the Cosby Show. Far from a hell hole. But don't mind him...he's stuck. And don't know it.
 
I prefer to think of it as avoiding an awkward question, so I will ask it again in a slightly different manner? Why do you think that Black Americans have not succeeded in the same way that many other ethnic communities have done? It seems to me that many Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Polish, Italians, Indians and Pakistanis have transcended the inherent racism in the US even though they arrived well after the African diaspora.

Please. Employ your white privilege ( you know...the notion that you're omniscient) , and tell us, since what you have said has to be true, because you said it.
 
poet: "White privilege is ingrained in the fabric of America. There is no litigation against what some claim to be a phantom..... we can never move forward, as a society, with you refusing to relinquish power, position and privilege, at all cost."

1. You stated the white privilege is ingrained, and nothing can litigate it.

Precisely. Too many people depend on it, and value it above their own mothers.

So there is nothing that can litigate this, other than for white people to relinquish all power.

2. You then state, whites relinquishing power and privilege is all that could make things right.
I did not say that.

Yes, you said, and I quote: "we can never move forward, as a society, with you refusing to relinquish power." If this doesn't mean you believe the only way to right the wrong is for whites to relinquish power to blacks, what does it mean?

3. Now you are claiming that you haven't been dramatic and I am paranoid.

I haven't claimed any such thing.

Yes, you called me a Drama Queen and said I was being paranoid... here are your quotes:

"What a drama queen....Some of you are paranoid that someone is trying to take something (especially "money") from you."

4. Then you speak of "shared power" but isn't that precisely what our founding principle is... that ALL MEN are created equal and endowed rights?

You're confused....on your own.

Well, we have a document called the Declaration of Independence, which states that all men are created equal and endowed certain rights by their Creator, and we have a Constitution which reinforces that principle, as well as a Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965, which further clarify equality. Yet, you seem to believe something needs to be articulated for black to share power in America... I am trying to clarify what the fuck you could possibly be talking about here, because it sounds like you may have woken up in 1954 or something.

5. And I find it hard to believe that enslavement would never enter your collective (or individual) minds, given your DNA.

I'm not white. Enslavement of human beings would never enter my mind.

Oh, I think enslavement is ALL you think about.... ALL the time! I think maybe it's why you are having a hard time moving forward, and remain mired in the past. I believe it's the primary motivating factor in your response to this thread, as well as your disdain for my avatar and nickname. And furthermore, I think, if we ever came to a time and place where you were sufficiently satisfied with the redistribution of power between whites and blacks, the next thing it would take to satisfy you, would be to enslave white people, or exterminate them entirely.
 
So there is nothing that can litigate this, other than for white people to relinquish all power.



Yes, you said, and I quote: "we can never move forward, as a society, with you refusing to relinquish power." If this doesn't mean you believe the only way to right the wrong is for whites to relinquish power to blacks, what does it mean?



Yes, you called me a Drama Queen and said I was being paranoid... here are your quotes:

"What a drama queen....Some of you are paranoid that someone is trying to take something (especially "money") from you."



Well, we have a document called the Declaration of Independence, which states that all men are created equal and endowed certain rights by their Creator, and we have a Constitution which reinforces that principle, as well as a Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965, which further clarify equality. Yet, you seem to believe something needs to be articulated for black to share power in America... I am trying to clarify what the fuck you could possibly be talking about here, because it sounds like you may have woken up in 1954 or something.



Oh, I think enslavement is ALL you think about.... ALL the time! I think maybe it's why you are having a hard time moving forward, and remain mired in the past. I believe it's the primary motivating factor in your response to this thread, as well as your disdain for my avatar and nickname. And furthermore, I think, if we ever came to a time and place where you were sufficiently satisfied with the redistribution of power between whites and blacks, the next thing it would take to satisfy you, would be to enslave white people, or exterminate them entirely.

And you're quite sick. I have too many whites that revere me as a person and I them for me to ever view them as a part of some dark network or deserving of what blacks and others endured. I'm not you. Nothing like you. Until you get that...this conversation is academic. My vitriol is aimed at individuals, and not due to their race, but their philosophy.
Contrary to popular belief, whites are not monolithic in thought as blacks are not. Your reality is your own.
 
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