I'm Sure This is Just a Coincidence

B

Bonestorm

Thrillhouse
Seriously. I'm sure that the demographic groups most hardest hit by GOP voter suppression efforts, young, minority and poor voters, just so happen to be traditionally Democrats is an odd coincidence:

Restrictive voting laws in states across the country could affect up to five million voters from traditionally Democratic demographics in 2012, according to a new report by the Brennan Center. That's a number larger than the margin of victory in two of the last three presidential elections.

The new restrictions, the study found, "fall most heavily on young, minority, and low-income voters, as well as on voters with disabilities. This wave of changes may sharply tilt the political terrain for the 2012 election."

The study found that:

These new laws could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012.

The states that have already cut back on voting rights will provide 171 electoral votes in 2012 - 63 percent of the 270 needed to win the presidency.

Of the 12 likely battleground states, as assessed by an August Los Angeles Times analysis of Gallup polling, five have already cut back on voting rights (and may pass additional restrictive legislation), and two more are currently considering new restrictions.
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http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...tic_voters_from_the_polls_in_2012.php?ref=fpa
 
David St. Hubbins said:
Seriously. I'm sure that the demographic groups most hardest hit by GOP voter suppression efforts, young, minority and poor voters, just so happen to be traditionally Democrats is an odd coincidence:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...tic_voters_from_the_polls_in_2012.php?ref=fpa
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yeah... just a coincidence that a left wing think tank funded by George Soros would have a study that shows people needing ID's to vote would hurt Dems. I mean they get through life without cashing a check, driving, working, getting married, flying etc.... why the hell should they have to go out and get an ID just for voting?

Dems consistently bitch about this, yet it would take what? $200 million at most to fund a 'free' ID for those that cannot afford the $10-20? You ARE trying to get these people jobs... right? So they are going to need an ID for that as well. Or are you trying to keep them on welfare? Which is it? Help them get off welfare and get jobs or keep them there? If you are truly looking to accomplish the former, then they need ID's. Which means any documentation issues they have will need to be addressed regardless of the voting issue. So let's kill two birds with one stone.
 
Superfreak said:
yeah... just a coincidence that a left wing think tank funded by George Soros would have a study that shows people needing ID's to vote would hurt Dems. I mean they get through life without cashing a check, driving, working, getting married, flying etc.... why the hell should they have to go out and get an ID just for voting?

Dems consistently bitch about this, yet it would take what? $200 million at most to fund a 'free' ID for those that cannot afford the $10-20? You ARE trying to get these people jobs... right? So they are going to need an ID for that as well. Or are you trying to keep them on welfare? Which is it? Help them get off welfare and get jobs or keep them there? If you are truly looking to accomplish the former, then they need ID's. Which means any documentation issues they have will need to be addressed regardless of the voting issue. So let's kill two birds with one stone.
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The laws serve no purpose whatsoever other than to suppress potential Democratic voters from voting. Whether it would be a good idea for people to have identification (and voter ID laws are just a part of the suppression effort) is irrelevant.
 
David St. Hubbins said:
The laws serve no purpose whatsoever other than to suppress potential Democratic voters from voting. Whether it would be a good idea for people to have identification (and voter ID laws are just a part of the suppression effort) is irrelevant.
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Since when does proving who you are and that you're a citizen equal voter suppression? Since when does making sure voting is legal translate to voter suppression? You sound like your want to encourage cheating.
 
David St. Hubbins said:
The laws serve no purpose whatsoever other than to suppress potential Democratic voters from voting. Whether it would be a good idea for people to have identification (and voter ID laws are just a part of the suppression effort) is irrelevant.
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How does it suppress voting to ask people to show an ID?

This non-stop whining could be resolved with less money than Obama just wasted on Solyndra.
 
Superfreak said:
How does it suppress voting to ask people to show an ID?

This non-stop whining could be resolved with less money than Obama just wasted on Solyndra.
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Adding layers to the voting process WILL reduce the # of voters statistically. You can call it whatever you want.

And it is no coincidence that the GOP is consistently the party that wants to add more layers, and opposes measures like motor-voter. They benefit from fewer people voting. If we had 100% turnout in this country, the political landscape would look much different. The Republican party would basically look like it does in NY or MA.
 
Superfreak said:
How does it suppress voting to ask people to show an ID?

This non-stop whining could be resolved with less money than Obama just wasted on Solyndra.
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21 million people don't have a government issued ID. That'a lot of people automatically disqualified from voting. And for no good reason.

And, like I said, that's just one part of the suppression efforts.
 
Jim Crow is alive and well in the Teabagger Party(formerly the Republicon party), always has been. Nothing new.

Proof from the mouth of one of it's leaders...


The fascist right has always been against democracy.
 
David St. Hubbins said:
21 million people don't have a government issued ID. That'a lot of people automatically disqualified from voting. And for no good reason.

And, like I said, that's just one part of the suppression efforts.
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Are you sure it's only 21 million? I think it's more like 30 million. Better check that out.
 
christiefan915 said:
Where does it say in the Constitution that citizens have to pay in order to vote?
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The Constitution prohibits discrimination via the 14th Amendment (citizenship), 15th Amendment (race/color), 19th Amendment (based on gender) and 26th Amendment (age). Otherwise voting is up to the states. They can choose to eliminate felons for example or the mentally ill. Proving their identity also does not have to be something they charge for. ID's can be subsidized relatively cheaply for those that cannot afford them. As I stated in a previous post, the documentation is also required in order for a person to get a job. So shouldn't we be making sure everyone has an ID anyway? So that each of those individuals can get a JOB should they choose? I would bet more money has been spent by Dems to attack voter ID requirements than it would have cost to supply those they are supposedly fighting for with the actual ID that would resolve this issue once and for all.

also.... the Constitution doesn't say a LOT of things, so the question was quite silly to begin with.
 
christiefan915 said:
My voter registration card was free.

Government-issued photo IDs aren't.

People will have to pay for a photo ID in order to vote.

Where is any of that in the Constitution?
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That's silly. I've seen people down at the welfare office when I worked there who were applying for food stamps.....they drove up in nice cars, nice clothes, smoked cigarettes, had lots of tattoos.......how did they pay for those things?
 
Superfreak said:
The Constitution prohibits discrimination via the 14th Amendment (citizenship), 15th Amendment (race/color), 19th Amendment (based on gender) and 26th Amendment (age). Otherwise voting is up to the states. They can choose to eliminate felons for example or the mentally ill. Proving their identity also does not have to be something they charge for. ID's can be subsidized relatively cheaply for those that cannot afford them. As I stated in a previous post, the documentation is also required in order for a person to get a job. So shouldn't we be making sure everyone has an ID anyway? So that each of those individuals can get a JOB should they choose? I would bet more money has been spent by Dems to attack voter ID requirements than it would have cost to supply those they are supposedly fighting for with the actual ID that would resolve this issue once and for all.

also.... the Constitution doesn't say a LOT of things, so the question was quite silly to begin with.
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The question was no more silly than all the other so-called Constitutional questions the strict constructionists raise.

I got a voter card when I filled out the application, signed it and submitted it. The app called for proof of identity such as a driver's license or SSN. Here's a copy of the form. http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt/community/applications_and_forms/13509

The process has worked just fine all these years. It's clear repubs are trying to stack the deck in their favor with this crap about a photo ID, along with the gerrymandering and changing the electoral vote system.
 
David St. Hubbins said:
21 million people don't have a government issued ID. That'a lot of people automatically disqualified from voting. And for no good reason.
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Again, THEN GET THEM ID's.... they NEED ONE TO WORK.... are you TRYING to suppress their ability to get a job????

And, like I said, that's just one part of the suppression efforts.
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And like I said... that is complete bullshit. Asking someone for ID does not suppress their ability to vote. All they have to do is get the ID that they would need for working, check writing, buying alcohol, flying etc.... If they can't afford it, then we can subsidize....

While I would like to see your data on the 21 million, for now I will assume it is a legit number. Again... it would cost less than the money wasted on Solyndra to pay for each of those 21 million to get ID's.

As for the 21 million.... that is 6.7% of our total population. Given that 24.9% of the population is under 18 that would mean 9% of adults don't have an ID. I find it very hard to believe that is an accurate number. Welfare checks have to be cashed, employment requires ID.... Are all these people living off the grid? How the hell do they function?
 
Alias said:
That's silly. I've seen people down at the welfare office when I worked there who were applying for food stamps.....they drove up in nice cars, nice clothes, smoked cigarettes, had lots of tattoos.......how did they pay for those things?
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OIC. That old reagan canard about the welfare queen driving a Cadillac to the office.

How about maybe they had nice clothes and tattoos before they had to go on welfare?
 
christiefan915 said:
The question was no more silly than all the other so-called Constitutional questions the strict constructionists raise.

I got a voter card when I filled out the application, signed it and submitted it. The app called for proof of identity such as a driver's license or SSN. Here's a copy of the form. http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt/community/applications_and_forms/13509

The process has worked just fine all these years. It's clear repubs are trying to stack the deck in their favor with this crap about a photo ID, along with the gerrymandering and changing the electoral vote system.
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You sound like you're afraid you can't win without some kind of fraud. That's what is sounds like.
 
Superfreak said:
Again, THEN GET THEM ID's.... they NEED ONE TO WORK.... are you TRYING to suppress their ability to get a job????
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I will throw my full support behind your plan to get people government issued IDs. However, until it is 100% successful, no voter ID laws. Deal?


Superfreak said:
And like I said... that is complete bullshit. Asking someone for ID does not suppress their ability to vote. All they have to do is get the ID that they would need for working, check writing, buying alcohol, flying etc.... If they can't afford it, then we can subsidize....

While I would like to see your data on the 21 million, for now I will assume it is a legit number. Again... it would cost less than the money wasted on Solyndra to pay for each of those 21 million to get ID's.

As for the 21 million.... that is 6.7% of our total population. Given that 24.9% of the population is under 18 that would mean 9% of adults don't have an ID. I find it very hard to believe that is an accurate number. Welfare checks have to be cashed, employment requires ID.... Are all these people living off the grid? How the hell do they function?
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Until everyone has IDs under you give an ID to everyone program, people should not be barred from voting because they lack one. And you continue to focus on only one aspect of the voter suppression effort.
 
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