The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage

PostmodernProphet said:
I suppose.....if you're willing to say that people choose to be black......but then, that argument has always looked stupid, so what's to stop you.....
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Choose? So tell me about the day you chose your sexual orientation. Did you weigh the pro's and cons of each gender, deciding between them before choosing?
 
bravo said:
Just as we can say some people are born with a proclivity to steal or hurt others or torture animals or kill for the thrill or abuse children.....do we excuse those things because they are born with those desires ?

All these things, just as with sexual desires, are controllable by self restraint, its not even close to being another race....its like redefining a mule as a type of human so your mama can legally marry the jackass.....

But in the end, you pinheads will probably get your own way as we descend more and more into anarchy....( the absence of any guiding or uniting principle; disorder; chaos)
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And still you focus solely on the sexual aspect.

Look, even without sex, could you be emotionally in love with a man? I know I couldn't. I have some friends I would give my life for, but those guys could never appeal to me romantically. The gay couples wanting to get married are about love and long term, committed relationships.

Who they love (as far as gender) is not something they choose. To compare them with crimes is just bullshit. Those crimes have victims and harm others. Gay couples harm no one, in fact, they are productive members of society.
 
WinterBorn said:
Most of the research shows homosexuality being something people are born with, not something they choose.
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alcholiics are born with it as well.....doesn't mean they have a right to drink......blacks can't very well choose not to be black.......homosexuals can choose not to engage in relations with others.....
 
St. Vitus' Dance said:
Choose? So tell me about the day you chose your sexual orientation. Did you weigh the pro's and cons of each gender, deciding between them before choosing?
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I don't know you well enough to share the intimate details of losing my virginity......perhaps, if it ever happens to you, you will understand.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
alcholiics are born with it as well.....doesn't mean they have a right to drink......blacks can't very well choose not to be black.......homosexuals can choose not to engage in relations with others.....
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Why don't you try that for the rest of your life. Report back here in fifty years how being alone by choice worked out idiot.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
alcholiics are born with it as well.....doesn't mean they have a right to drink......blacks can't very well choose not to be black.......homosexuals can choose not to engage in relations with others.....
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Why would they do that? Alcoholics have to fight their predisposition for being drunks for a number of good reasons, like their health, their families ect. The only reasons homosexuals would have to fight their nature is because some people are squeamish about it. Not a reason to deny who they are.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
does that mean we should force everyone to give them the same benefits that people in a normal relationship receive?.......
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What exactly would you be forced to give them? You don't have to like them, respect them or accept them. Right now you can't fire them or beat them because they are gay. What would change?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
does that mean we should force everyone to give them the same benefits that people in a normal relationship receive?.......
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We give the same benefits to straight couples in open marriages, who are swingers, who live in different houses (or even different states). We givethe same benefits to straight couples who beat each other up, couples who do drugs, and couples who drink themselves into oblivion every night. We even give those benefits to straight couples who cheat on their spouses repeatedly.

It isn't just "normal" relationships that receive the benefits.
 
Return of Dune said:
Why don't you try that for the rest of your life. Report back here in fifty years how being alone by choice worked out idiot.
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????....I've avoided having relations with someone of the same sex for the last 59 years......wasn't very hard at all.......I foresee no difficulties with whatever time I have left.....
 
WinterBorn said:
Why would they do that? Alcoholics have to fight their predisposition for being drunks for a number of good reasons, like their health, their families ect. The only reasons homosexuals would have to fight their nature is because some people are squeamish about it. Not a reason to deny who they are.
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so being an alcoholic effects the family but being gay doesn't?........and I don't think anyone asked anyone to deny who they were.....in fact, one of the first steps in dealing with alcoholism is to admit being an alcoholic......why should it be different with homosexuality?......
 
WinterBorn said:
What exactly would you be forced to give them? You don't have to like them, respect them or accept them. Right now you can't fire them or beat them because they are gay. What would change?
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if nothing would change, why do they need a law?......as I understand, the purpose of law is compel action......what action is compelled by the laws gays want put in place?.......
 
WinterBorn said:
We give the same benefits to straight couples in open marriages, who are swingers, who live in different houses (or even different states). We givethe same benefits to straight couples who beat each other up, couples who do drugs, and couples who drink themselves into oblivion every night. We even give those benefits to straight couples who cheat on their spouses repeatedly.

It isn't just "normal" relationships that receive the benefits.
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as I have said, if the benefits don't accomplish any government purpose then they should not be government provided benefits......I seriously doubt we give benefits to keep people from cheating on their spouses......but, if we do and they aren't working, we should abandon them......

are you suggesting, for example that we have a law which says an employer must provide pension benefits to the spouses of employees when those spouses are sleeping around?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
so being an alcoholic effects the family but being gay doesn't?........and I don't think anyone asked anyone to deny who they were.....in fact, one of the first steps in dealing with alcoholism is to admit being an alcoholic......why should it be different with homosexuality?......
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Because homosexuality is not a disease and is not, by definition, self-destructive behavior. Families are effected by homosexuality, but there are no negative effect from homosexuality per se. It is because of those who would compare them to pedophiles, call them deviants and perverts, and want them exterminated. My family has had no adverse effects from my sister being gay.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
if nothing would change, why do they need a law?......as I understand, the purpose of law is compel action......what action is compelled by the laws gays want put in place?.......
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The law gains them the hundreds of benefits that married couples get. It does GIVE something to gay couples. But it does not cost you a thing.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
as I have said, if the benefits don't accomplish any government purpose then they should not be government provided benefits......I seriously doubt we give benefits to keep people from cheating on their spouses......but, if we do and they aren't working, we should abandon them......

are you suggesting, for example that we have a law which says an employer must provide pension benefits to the spouses of employees when those spouses are sleeping around?
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I am suggesting that your statement "...like normal couples" also included many couple (who receive the marital benefits) that are far from normal.

I am suggesting that if 2 adult couples are together and in committed relationships, that one couple gets 1,400 benefits without asking and the other gets none of those benefits, is wrong.
 
WinterBorn said:
Because homosexuality is not a disease and is not, by definition, self-destructive behavior. Families are effected by homosexuality, but there are no negative effect from homosexuality per se. It is because of those who would compare them to pedophiles, call them deviants and perverts, and want them exterminated. My family has had no adverse effects from my sister being gay.
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homosexuality is an abnormal reaction to members of the same sex, just as alcoholism is an abnormal reaction to alcohol.....only a fool would pretend anyone has suggested exterminating homosexuals.....I suspect the very fact you believe it to be true is an detrimental effect brought on you by having a homosexual in the family.......
 
WinterBorn said:
The law gains them the hundreds of benefits that married couples get. It does GIVE something to gay couples. But it does not cost you a thing.
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really?......how does it give something to someone without costing someone something?......and, can we harness it and run the world on it?.....
 
WinterBorn said:
I am suggesting that if 2 adult couples are together and in committed relationships, that one couple gets 1,400 benefits without asking and the other gets none of those benefits, is wrong.
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not if it's a marital benefit and one couple is married and the other isn't.....then it isn't wrong, it's simply logical....unless you're suggesting it isn't a marital benefit, that it's a committed relationship benefit.....
 
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