What good is the Debt Ceiling?

[Bonestorm]

The above is unfortunately the mentality of so many on the left. It highlights the complete lack of fiscal responsibility that has this country in such a financial mess right now. The above is truly one of the most ignorant comments since Ditzie tried to explain 1/3.

You are truly a horse's ass. Truly.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

It's not any good. It would make more sense to have a debt ceiling based on debt as a % of GDP, but this one isn't even adjusted to inflation. Which means it has to be continually raised if any amount of borrowing is undertaken at all, because the value of the debt ceiling is constantly going down.

 

[Bonestorm]

How typical of a Dem. LMAO... "not raising it causes all sorts of problems"... no moron.... constantly out spending revenue to the point where you need to continue raising it is what causes the problems.

Tell us.... if you have a credit card and maxed it out, then went to the credit card company and said 'hey, just raise the limit, because if you don't it just causes all sorts of problems'.... would they:

(a) die of laughter
(b) tell you that you are out of your friggin mind
(c) make you develop a plan to pay down the debt in the event they give you one more raise in limit
(d) say... 'oh, sure, we can see how that would be a problem for you, tell you what... why don't we just take away the limit all together... just keep on out spending your revenue... no harm could ever come from that'

You're an idiot.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

But they already voted in favor of all the debt that has been incurred. If Congress wanted to not take on any additional debt it can just vote against new spending bills. The debt ceiling has little to do with future obligations and everything to do with paying for what they've already spent. It's stupid.

Wrong. The only stupid thing would be to remove it. As I stated, it is an accountability measure. It forces the issue into the light where the public can see the ramifications of all the spending the idiots in DC 'authorized'. I could care less if they authorized it. They can also vote to defund projects or cut spending across the board to avoid pushing the debt higher. You just want them to avoid having to have these discussions because it goes against every principle of the Democratic party when it comes to fiscal responsibility. (to be clear, I am NOT suggesting the Reps have been fiscally responsible of late... just that it is standard Dem mentality to say things like 'its stupid because it makes me have to justify the continued insanity')

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

How typical of a Dem. LMAO... "not raising it causes all sorts of problems"... no moron.... constantly out spending revenue to the point where you need to continue raising it is what causes the problems.

Tell us.... if you have a credit card and maxed it out, then went to the credit card company and said 'hey, just raise the limit, because if you don't it just causes all sorts of problems'.... would they:

(a) die of laughter
(b) tell you that you are out of your friggin mind
(c) make you develop a plan to pay down the debt in the event they give you one more raise in limit
(d) say... 'oh, sure, we can see how that would be a problem for you, tell you what... why don't we just take away the limit all together... just keep on out spending your revenue... no harm could ever come from that'

The debt limit is not analogous to a credit limit at a bank. It's more like a debt limit you set in your head. The only real credit limit the US government has is when investors stop freely investing in our bonds.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You're an idiot.

Translation: "I have no clue how to respond because I know whatever I say will be ridiculed, so I will simply call you an idiot and hope that justifies my position'

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

And it's really more like trying to enforce responsibility on yourself by not paying your bills in a tough situation. Hey, I can save so much money by not paying for gas! What? How will I get to work? What a fiscally irresponsible thing to say!

 

[Bonestorm]

Wrong. The only stupid thing would be to remove it. As I stated, it is an accountability measure. It forces the issue into the light where the public can see the ramifications of all the spending the idiots in DC 'authorized'. I could care less if they authorized it. They can also vote to defund projects or cut spending across the board to avoid pushing the debt higher. You just want them to avoid having to have these discussions because it goes against every principle of the Democratic party when it comes to fiscal responsibility. (to be clear, I am NOT suggesting the Reps have been fiscally responsible of late... just that it is standard Dem mentality to say things like 'its stupid because it makes me have to justify the continued insanity')

Since you like analogies, it's like going out to dinner and getting the surf and turf for everyone and a few bottles of wine and then voting on whether you will pay the check while you enjoy your postprandial coffee.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The debt limit is not analogous to a credit limit at a bank. It's more like a debt limit you set in your head. The only real credit limit the US government has is when investors stop freely investing in our bonds.

Sorry Water, but that is not true. It is the entire reason the debt ceiling was put in place. It forces them to either justify why they are increasing it or to pretend as Dung does that it just doesn't matter if they continue out spending revenue.

Take a look at the current QE2 (and before it QE1)..... what is taking place there Water? The government is issuing bonds with one hand and buying them up with the Fed in the other. What is to stop them from doing this continuously Water?

It is roulette.... if you keep playing, sooner or later you will eat the bullet.

The public is growing tired of the irresponsible behavior of the two parties. They see what is going on in Europe. They see what happened in Japan. They know our economy is not healthy. They know that $1 trillion plus deficits are not sustainable. They want spending cuts. They want the idiots in DC to spend within their means. To not do so means we continue to push the irresponsible behavior of the boomers on to your generation and those that follow.

 

[Bonestorm]

Translation: "I have no clue how to respond because I know whatever I say will be ridiculed, so I will simply call you an idiot and hope that justifies my position'

Not really. The Ayatollah noted the most glaring problem with the dumbass analogy. And the problems created by not raising the debt ceiling dwarf the problems caused by deficit spending. Pretending otherwise is jackassery of the highest order.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Since you like analogies, it's like going out to dinner and getting the surf and turf for everyone and a few bottles of wine and then voting on whether you will pay the check while you enjoy your postprandial coffee.

wrong.... it is like going out to dinner knowing you have no money to paying for it and ordering the surf and turf for everyone anyway, then calling your credit card company after the fact to proclaim that they should raise your limit because otherwise it will hurt your ability to pay for what you want.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Not really. The Ayatollah noted the most glaring problem with the dumbass analogy. And the problems created by not raising the debt ceiling dwarf the problems caused by deficit spending. Pretending otherwise is jackassery of the highest order.

Again, you display your complete ignorance on the topic. It is the DEFICIT spending that is the CAUSE of the entire problem. STOP doing it dolt and guess what..... YOU DON'T EVER HAVE TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING AGAIN. EVER.

 

[Bonestorm]

wrong.... it is like going out to dinner knowing you have no money to paying for it and ordering the surf and turf for everyone anyway, then calling your credit card company after the fact to proclaim that they should raise your limit because otherwise it will hurt your ability to pay for what you want.

There is no credit card company. You are inserting parties into the analogy that do not exist in the real world.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

And it's really more like trying to enforce responsibility on yourself by not paying your bills in a tough situation. Hey, I can save so much money by not paying for gas! What? How will I get to work? What a fiscally irresponsible thing to say!

Wrong again.... it is like saying I have to live within my means, which do I cut:

1) Gas
2) Utilities
3) Cable TV
4) Internet
5) Eating out

etc....

You QUIT FRIGGIN spending on things that are not necessities. You quit pretending that just because you WANT something that it somehow becomes a NECESSITY.

Guess what.... I would love to be able to pay for everyone to have a mansion, free energy, every new advancement in medical/drug treatments, new cars every year, 'free' healthcare etc.... cause golly gee... that would be nice.... and doesn't everyone deserve it? But if I cannot afford to do all these things then I CANNOT CONTINUE TO PROMISE THAT I WILL.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Sorry Water, but that is not true. It is the entire reason the debt ceiling was put in place. It forces them to either justify why they are increasing it or to pretend as Dung does that it just doesn't matter if they continue out spending revenue.

A credit limit is the debt limit placed on the borrower by the debt-issuing organization. In the case of a credit card, that's the bank. In case of a government, that's the investors, and there's no definite credit limit, only a vague practical one. A debt-limit you place on yourself is an imaginary fiction.

Take a look at the current QE2 (and before it QE1)..... what is taking place there Water? The government is issuing bonds with one hand and buying them up with the Fed in the other. What is to stop them from doing this continuously Water?

If the federal reserve couldn't do that, they'd just have to turn to some other measure to shore up the money supply.

It is roulette.... if you keep playing, sooner or later you will eat the bullet.

The public is growing tired of the irresponsible behavior of the two parties. They see what is going on in Europe. They see what happened in Japan. They know our economy is not healthy. They know that $1 trillion plus deficits are not sustainable. They want spending cuts. They want the idiots in DC to spend within their means. To not do so means we continue to push the irresponsible behavior of the boomers on to your generation and those that follow.

The deficits are bad right now because revenue is down due to the recession. To balance the budget in this situation, we'd have to eliminate social security and the military (and keep the FICA tax in place). It's not like investors are fleeing our bonds anyway.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

There is no credit card company. You are inserting parties into the analogy that do not exist in the real world.

Yes there is moron. That is the purpose of the debt ceiling. While the idiots in DC are the ones who get to decide, it forces them to vote on it. A vote that can be seen by the public. The public then decides if the current crop of idiots deserve to retain their jobs.

 

[Bonestorm]

Again, you display your complete ignorance on the topic. It is the DEFICIT spending that is the CAUSE of the entire problem. STOP doing it dolt and guess what..... YOU DON'T EVER HAVE TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING AGAIN. EVER.

Calm down, junior. No need to yell. Tough day at the track or something?

I think we just disagree about what is a problem and what is not. We should all be able to agree that defaulting on our debt is a major problem. We should also be able to all agree that not paying Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security obligations in full beginning in August is also a major a problem. The only way to avoid those two things is to raise the debt ceiling. The fact of raising the debt ceiling does not in and of itself cause any problems whatsoever. It just allows the government to meet its current obligations. Even if you think that the government needs to cut spending, raising the debt ceiling doesn't require the government to spend more. Congress can always vote to cut whatever it wants even if the debt ceiling is eleventy billion dollars. if you want to cut spending, just cut spending. The debt ceiling has nothing to do with it.

 

[Bonestorm]

Yes there is moron. That is the purpose of the debt ceiling. While the idiots in DC are the ones who get to decide, it forces them to vote on it. A vote that can be seen by the public. The public then decides if the current crop of idiots deserve to retain their jobs.

But they've already voted on everything once already (i.e. they've ordered and eaten). Now they're voting on whether to pay for it. It's stupid.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Wrong again.... it is like saying I have to live within my means, which do I cut:

1) Gas
2) Utilities
3) Cable TV
4) Internet
5) Eating out

Medicare/Medicaid - 20.8%
Social security - 19.6%
DoD - 18.74%
Unemployment - 16.13%
Interest on the Debt - 4.63%
Everything else - 20%

Which one is Cable TV, Internet, and Eating out? Medicare? Defense? Everything else?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

A credit limit is the debt limit placed on the borrower by the debt-issuing organization. In the case of a credit card, that's the bank. In case of a government, that's the investors, and there's no definite credit limit, only a vague practical one. A debt-limit you place on yourself is an imaginary fiction.

Wrong again. The debt of the country is restricted by its ability to spend. The debt limit restricts that ability. I understand your general confusion on the issue, but the purpose as I stated, is to force the idiots to vote on the increase. It is an accountability measure. We the people are ultimately the ones that have to HOLD them accountable. If we fail to do so then the impending blow up is our own damn fault.

If the federal reserve couldn't do that, they'd just have to turn to some other measure to shore up the money supply.

how does that shore up the money supply water?

The deficits are bad right now because revenue is down due to the recession. To balance the budget in this situation, we'd have to eliminate social security and the military (and keep the FICA tax in place). It's not like investors are fleeing our bonds anyway.

Yes, to a degree that is true. The problem is that we have run actual deficits since 1960. Which is why the debt ceiling has had to continually be raised.

As for balancing the budget, we can take everything across the board back to 2006 spending levels. Revenues may be lower by 200-300 billion dollars, but they are not shy by $1.6 TRILLION.

Our bonds ARE lacking buyers Water... which is WHY the Fed is playing the shell game with QE1 and QE2.