another murder by the government

SWAT team fired 71 shots in raid

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.html

The Pima County Regional SWAT team fired 71 shots in seven seconds at a Tucson man they say pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home.

Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine who served in Iraq twice, was holding an AR-15 rifle when he was killed, but he never fired a shot, the Sheriff's Department said Monday after initially saying he had fired on officers during last week's raid.

Six days after Guerena was shot, few details about the investigation that brought the SWAT team to the southwest-side home Guerena shared with his wife and their two young sons are known. Guerena's role in the narcotics investigation is unclear and deputies would not comment on what was seized from his home.


So Pima county murders an innocent man in his own home, refuses to release any information about the whys and wherefores of this so called raid, and no doubt that it will all be justified and no charges against any officer will ever be leveled, but don't doubt that the county government will settle this case for 7 figures to avoid it coming to court and a jury ruling against them.

another reason that the war on drugs is unconstitutional.

why did he answer his door carrying a weapon

why was swat included in the bust

is there any indication that a full inquiry will be performed with a public report

will there be a public settlement

what was the warrant for

yes the war on drugs sucks - the monies for that program would be better spent for rehabilitation - strange that republicans say that they want less government but have created a huge and costly bureaucracy to interfere with adult use of recreational drugs in the home - irresponsible use by adults needs to carry heavy penalties - use by minors should still be forbidden
 
Still nothing?

Actually, you are living proof that a comprehensive psychological study is spot on.

Psychology Today
Our political preferences are equally the result of factors we're not aware of—such as how educated we are, how scary the world seems at a given moment, and personality traits that are first apparent in early childhood. Among the most potent motivators, it turns out, is fear.

"All people are born alike—except Republicans and Democrats," quipped Groucho Marx, and in fact it turns out that personality differences between liberals and conservatives are evident in early childhood. In 1969, Berkeley professors Jack and Jeanne Block embarked on a study of childhood personality, asking nursery school teachers to rate children's temperaments. They weren't even thinking about political orientation.

Twenty years later, they decided to compare the subjects' childhood personalities with their political preferences as adults. They found arresting patterns. As kids, liberals had developed close relationships with peers and were rated by their teachers as self-reliant, energetic, impulsive, and resilient. People who were conservative at age 23 had been described by their teachers as easily victimized, easily offended, indecisive, fearful, rigid, inhibited, and vulnerable at age 3. The reason for the difference, the Blocks hypothesized, was that insecure kids most needed the reassurance of tradition and authority, and they found it in conservative politics.
 
I notice they didn't bother studying the Classical Liberal, or libertarian. Tell me, do you have a study that even tried to study what Libertarians had to think? What about Progressive republicans? Conservative Democrats? Where did they divide it and how did they apply "conservative" or "liberal"?

By liberal did they mean the people who are going to ensure that I wear a helmet through government force? By conservative did they mean people who wanted to make sure the government cared about whether gay people were married? What about people who think that neither are the business of government? Are they "afraid and rigid" because they don't want the protection of "authority"?

Depending on how they defined the words "liberal" or "conservative" it may have some validity. But if you are speaking of the two major definitions used today? Both of y'all are conservatives.
 
How old are you, 5? I have never called for all guns to be gone. Take you polarized brain to a psychiatrist. NO Democrats or liberals are calling for 'complete gun control'. You best get outside so you can spot those black helicopters.
Oh really now?
Senator Dianne Feinstein: "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out-right ban, picking up every one of them... 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here." CBS-TV's "60 Minutes", February 5, 1995
 
why did he answer his door carrying a weapon
did you read the article?
he had just gotten off of a 12 hour shift working a productive job to take care of his family. He was woke up by a screaming wife telling him that men with guns were outside, so he armed himself like any reasonable individual would do.

why was swat included in the bust
more and more they use SWAT to serve warrants for parking tickets. do you bother watching or reading local news anywhere?

is there any indication that a full inquiry will be performed with a public report
would you trust the bush admin investigating themselves? why should we trust law enforcement investigating themselves when a negative finding will put them in a seriously bad light?

will there be a public settlement
absolutely there will be. The government is not going to want this anywhere near a jury.

what was the warrant for
the county refuses comment, just that they served many warrants in that neighborhood on that morning, but they won't say what they found where.
 
did you read the article? more and more they use SWAT to serve warrants for parking tickets.

I read the article, Smarter than Few.

Here it is. All of it. Verbatim.

"The Pima County Regional SWAT team fired 71 shots in seven seconds at a Tucson man they say pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home. Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine who served in Iraq twice, was holding an AR-15 rifle when he was killed, but he never fired a shot, the Sheriff's Department said Monday after initially saying he had fired on officers during last week's raid.

Six days after Guerena was shot, few details about the investigation that brought the SWAT team to the southwest-side home Guerena shared with his wife and their two young sons are known. Guerena's role in the narcotics investigation is unclear and deputies would not comment on what was seized from his home.

Three other homes within a quarter of a mile from Guerena's house, were served search warrants related to the investigation that morning. The addresses and the names of people who live in the other homes have not been made public.

Vanessa Guerena says she heard noise outside their home about 9 a.m. Thursday and woke her husband who had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at the Asarco Mine, she said. There were no sirens or shouts of "police," she said.

Guerena told his wife and son to hide inside a closet and he grabbed the AR-15 rifle, his wife said. The department says SWAT members were clear when identifying themselves while entering the home. "Tucson is notorious for home invasions and we didn't want to look like that," said Lt. Michael O'Connor of the Pima County Sheriff's Department. "We went lights and sirens and we absolutely did not do a 'no-knock' warrant."

When five SWAT members broke through the front door Guerena was crouched down pointing the gun at them, said O'Connor. "The suspect said, 'I've got something for you,' when he saw them," O'Connor said. Guerena's wife denied he said that.

Deputies began shooting. A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, O'Connor said.

The Sheriff's Department put in a call to Drexel Heights fire at 9:43 a.m. requesting assistance with a shooting. But crews were told to hold off.

Guerena was dead by the time they were allowed in the house, fire officials said. Vanessa Guerena vividly remembers seeing her wounded husband.

"When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."

The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.

"I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.

The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home. Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.

Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.

Guerena was a Tucson native and Flowing Wells High School graduate. He joined the U.S. Marines in 2002. He served two tours in Iraq in 2003 and 2005 as part of the Yuma-based MWSS-173 under direct supervision of Master Sgt. Leo Verdugo.

Verdugo was with Guerena's family Tuesday afternoon. He gave them a Marine Corps jacket and gloves to use at Guerena's burial. "He was an excellent Marine, with a bright future ahead of him," Verdugo said.

"We had just bought a home and he was working graveyard shifts and overtime just to help pay the bills, we were just starting to make this house our home," Vanessa Guerena said. "I know I can't have him back but I want justice. I want explanations for what happened," she said."

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.html


Please tell me how you know the SWAT team was serving a warrant for a parking ticket.

This a tragic incident. Your blind hatred for police has apparently caused you to fabricate a claim.

Your hyperbole doesn't help your viewpoint, does it?
 
I notice they didn't bother studying the Classical Liberal, or libertarian. Tell me, do you have a study that even tried to study what Libertarians had to think? What about Progressive republicans? Conservative Democrats? Where did they divide it and how did they apply "conservative" or "liberal"?

By liberal did they mean the people who are going to ensure that I wear a helmet through government force? By conservative did they mean people who wanted to make sure the government cared about whether gay people were married? What about people who think that neither are the business of government? Are they "afraid and rigid" because they don't want the protection of "authority"?

Depending on how they defined the words "liberal" or "conservative" it may have some validity. But if you are speaking of the two major definitions used today? Both of y'all are conservatives.

There have been numerous studies some recent and some going back to the 50's. The more recent studies have been able to find actual physical differences between the liberal mind and the conservative mind.

Political views 'hard-wired' into your brain

Scientists have found that people with conservative views have brains with larger amygdalas, almond shaped areas in the centre of the brain often associated with anxiety and emotions.

On the other hand, they have a smaller anterior cingulate, an area at the front of the brain associated with courage and looking on the bright side of life.

The study Jack and Jeanne Block did:

Nursery school personality and political orientation two decades later

The most comprehensive study examined 88 different psychological studies conducted between 1958 and 2002 that involved 22,818 people from 12 different countries.

Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition

You are welcome to read them.
 

Please tell me how you know the SWAT team was serving a warrant for a parking ticket.

This a tragic incident. Your blind hatred for police has apparently caused you to fabricate a claim.

Your hyperbole doesn't help your viewpoint, does it?


you are not only just a troll, you're the dumbest motherfucker on the face of the earth. You have either zero comprehension skills or you're willfully ignorant and obtuse.

I did NOT say they were serving a traffic warrant on this particular individual. I responded to another poster who had asked about was there a SWAT team involved in the raid.

Learn to fucking read or shut your fucking mouth.
 
There have been numerous studies some recent and some going back to the 50's. The more recent studies have been able to find actual physical differences between the liberal mind and the conservative mind.

Political views 'hard-wired' into your brain

Scientists have found that people with conservative views have brains with larger amygdalas, almond shaped areas in the centre of the brain often associated with anxiety and emotions.

On the other hand, they have a smaller anterior cingulate, an area at the front of the brain associated with courage and looking on the bright side of life.

The study Jack and Jeanne Block did:

Nursery school personality and political orientation two decades later

The most comprehensive study examined 88 different psychological studies conducted between 1958 and 2002 that involved 22,818 people from 12 different countries.

Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition

You are welcome to read them.

Or, since you think they are salient you can answer questions about what you learned.

Tell me, how did they define "conservative" and "liberal"? Was it by affiliation? Did they include people who became libertarians who don't fit either of the current big two?

So far you have studies that you want other people to read. The answers to the question might give me incentive to read them. If you are talking about Democrats and Republicans as "liberal" and "conservative" then the studies are total rubbish. Being republican doesn't make one "conservative" being democrat doesn't make another "liberal".
 
I think this construct the most apropos`

If you are under 30 and conservative you have no heart-if over 30 and liberal you have no brain~
 
Or, since you think they are salient you can answer questions about what you learned.

Tell me, how did they define "conservative" and "liberal"? Was it by affiliation? Did they include people who became libertarians who don't fit either of the current big two?

So far you have studies that you want other people to read. The answers to the question might give me incentive to read them. If you are talking about Democrats and Republicans as "liberal" and "conservative" then the studies are total rubbish. Being republican doesn't make one "conservative" being democrat doesn't make another "liberal".

Basically there are two different types of minds. Libertarians could be either a liberal or a conservative mind. It really depends of that person.
 
you are not only just a troll, you're the dumbest motherfucker on the face of the earth. You have either zero comprehension skills or you're willfully ignorant and obtuse.

I did NOT say they were serving a traffic warrant on this particular individual. I responded to another poster who had asked about was there a SWAT team involved in the raid.

Learn to fucking read or shut your fucking mouth.


You responded to another poster who asked "why was swat included in the bust?".

why did he answer his door carrying a weapon

why was swat included in the bust

is there any indication that a full inquiry will be performed with a public report

will there be a public settlement

what was the warrant for

yes the war on drugs sucks - the monies for that program would be better spent for rehabilitation - strange that republicans say that they want less government but have created a huge and costly bureaucracy to interfere with adult use of recreational drugs in the home - irresponsible use by adults needs to carry heavy penalties - use by minors should still be forbidden



The "bust" in question being the one in the OP.


They asked that question in reference to the incident in the OP, genius.

Your reply?

did you read the article?
he had just gotten off of a 12 hour shift working a productive job to take care of his family. He was woke up by a screaming wife telling him that men with guns were outside, so he armed himself like any reasonable individual would do.

more and more they use SWAT to serve warrants for parking tickets. do you bother watching or reading local news anywhere?

would you trust the bush admin investigating themselves? why should we trust law enforcement investigating themselves when a negative finding will put them in a seriously bad light?

absolutely there will be. The government is not going to want this anywhere near a jury.

the county refuses comment, just that they served many warrants in that neighborhood on that morning, but they won't say what they found where.



It's so easy to expose your lack of intergrity.


Want to try again?
 
Churchill~

churchill-centre-logo.gif


Quotes Falsely Attributed

These quotes make for good story-telling but popular myth has falsely attributed them to Churchill.

"Conservative by the time you're 35"

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." There is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this. Paul Addison of Edinburgh University makes this comment: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?"

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/myths/myths/quotes-falsely-attributed-to-him
 
So I wrongly attributed it to Churchill...but it makes it nonetheless apropos`-though I do appreciate having my error pointed out to me.


btw you wrongly state the historical facts about Churchill. He was a soldier and a conservative at a young age and did indeed switch to the
liberal party at 30-but switched back to the conservative party- and the liberal party of the Britain at his time of doing so, was NOTHING, like that of American liberal democrats.

A man named Peter Rutland wrote a letter to the Washington Post
clearing up the origin of the 'Churchill quote':

?Charles Krauthammer [op-ed, May 25] quotes Winston Churchill as
saying, "If you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart. If
you're not a conservative when you're 40, you have no head."

This quotation is frequently but mistakenly attributed to Churchill.
It is anyway unlikely that Churchill would subscribe to this
philosophy: He was a swashbuckling soldier at 20, and a Conservative
member of Parliament at 25. A couple of years later he switched to the
Liberal Party (which was not liberal in the modern sense), and later
went back to the Conservatives.

The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a
republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is
proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges
Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."
 
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Actually, you are living proof that a comprehensive psychological study is spot on.

Psychology Today
Our political preferences are equally the result of factors we're not aware of—such as how educated we are, how scary the world seems at a given moment, and personality traits that are first apparent in early childhood. Among the most potent motivators, it turns out, is fear.

"All people are born alike—except Republicans and Democrats," quipped Groucho Marx, and in fact it turns out that personality differences between liberals and conservatives are evident in early childhood. In 1969, Berkeley professors Jack and Jeanne Block embarked on a study of childhood personality, asking nursery school teachers to rate children's temperaments. They weren't even thinking about political orientation.

Twenty years later, they decided to compare the subjects' childhood personalities with their political preferences as adults. They found arresting patterns. As kids, liberals had developed close relationships with peers and were rated by their teachers as self-reliant, energetic, impulsive, and resilient. People who were conservative at age 23 had been described by their teachers as easily victimized, easily offended, indecisive, fearful, rigid, inhibited, and vulnerable at age 3. The reason for the difference, the Blocks hypothesized, was that insecure kids most needed the reassurance of tradition and authority, and they found it in conservative politics.

I am not a friggin conservative.
Now you think Dune is a conservative? Did you stop taking your meds?
 
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