Lybia produces 3%....

I was thinking this the other night at the pump. I don't think people have any idea how bad things can get, and how quickly. With so much in our lives & business tied up in oil, and so much of our oil need tied up with foreign sources, and so many of those sources being areas of volatility....it's just a recipe for disaster.

yes.... which is why we should ...

1) Infrastructure build out... start by mandate... 3 year window for gas stations to add a nat gas pump.

2) three year window for automakers to get production lines up and running for nat gas vehicles

3) encourage individuals to invest in conversion kits for current vehicles.

at the same time we should....

1) drill our own nat gas sites

2) invest in alt energy research and development HERE in the US.

3) resume off shore drilling and open ANWAR

Enough of the reliance upon foreign energy, we all bitch about our dependency only to see our government fail time and again to act.
 
how do oil companies set the price? my understanding is that speculators do this by trading oil as a commodity....

they do....

oil prices are set in part by supply/demand to a fair value based on production levels.

Then speculators take the price above or below fair value based on future expectations. The variance is high during periods of uncertainty. Low otherwise.
 
Speculation just fucks up everything.....one day, people will wake up to that fact, storm their representatives offices and demand tight regulation on market speculation. When that happens, things might slightly change for the better in this world.
 
Most of the oil from Libya goes to Europe, the percentage that actully goes to America is very slim compared to Europe. Many factors goes into the raising of oil everywhere, even if it doesn't effect them in anyway. Fear of losing the resources always jacks up the price, that includes the incident with BP. What goes up, most come down. Does that make it justified? no, not really.
 
Speculation just fucks up everything.....one day, people will wake up to that fact, storm their representatives offices and demand tight regulation on market speculation. When that happens, things might slightly change for the better in this world.

Speculation is liberal.

Isn't it?

:confused:
 
Most of the oil from Libya goes to Europe, the percentage that actully goes to America is very slim compared to Europe. Many factors goes into the raising of oil everywhere, even if it doesn't effect them in anyway. Fear of losing the resources always jacks up the price, that includes the incident with BP. What goes up, most come down. Does that make it justified? no, not really.

You sound like a speculatar.

What goes up sometimes means that the something of value you're trading with becomes,,,,,, and is worth,,, sometimes less than what you were trading with moments before.

If the dollar is worth less at some point,,,, you lose. There's no bounce for you in other words.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Speculation just fucks up everything.....one day, people will wake up to that fact, storm their representatives offices and demand tight regulation on market speculation. When that happens, things might slightly change for the better in this world.


Speculation is liberal.

Isn't it?

:confused:

You are confused, because financial speculation was not "created" as a "liberal" or "conservative" philosophy per se. If you can document when and how this occured, then please do.
 
Speculation just fucks up everything.....one day, people will wake up to that fact, storm their representatives offices and demand tight regulation on market speculation. When that happens, things might slightly change for the better in this world.

Moron.... the entire stock market, bond market, commodities market are ALL based on speculation. The buyer is speculating the particular security will continue up. The seller is speculating that it will not.

I wonder why it is that so many people bitch and moan when speculation is against their interest, but love speculation when it works in their favor. Imagine that. I bet you didn't bitch once in the late 90's when speculation (and manipulation) pushed oil prices below $10/brl..... right?
 
Most of the oil from Libya goes to Europe, the percentage that actully goes to America is very slim compared to Europe. Many factors goes into the raising of oil everywhere, even if it doesn't effect them in anyway. Fear of losing the resources always jacks up the price, that includes the incident with BP. What goes up, most come down. Does that make it justified? no, not really.

Oil is fluid. It doesn't matter who buys from whom other than potential shipping costs. A disruption in supply effects everyone the same way.... worldwide price per brl.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Speculation just fucks up everything.....one day, people will wake up to that fact, storm their representatives offices and demand tight regulation on market speculation. When that happens, things might slightly change for the better in this world.



Moron.... the entire stock market, bond market, commodities market are ALL based on speculation. The buyer is speculating the particular security will continue up. The seller is speculating that it will not.

No shit Sherlock, THAT'S my point! That's why I'm advocating that you need tight regulation on market speculation....so the emphasis is placed on "what is" rather than "what can or should be". Once again the Super Freak-ing Dunce demonstrates his inability to read carefully.

I wonder why it is that so many people bitch and moan when speculation is against their interest, but love speculation when it works in their favor.

Well toodles, for the last 30 years the "speculation" has done a lousy job for the vast majority of average wage earning consumers at the gas pump, the grocery store, etc.

Imagine that. I bet you didn't bitch once in the late 90's when speculation (and manipulation) pushed oil prices below $10/brl..... right?

:palm: Speculation created the false price gouging and barrel price inflation in the first place...you Super Freak-ing Dunce! So people are suppose to be giddy and grateful that speculation falsely pushes up the price, then lowers itself slightly while in the end leaving the gas pump price a little higher than before? Jeez, you are one Super Freak-ing ass kisser for the corporate/neocon causes, aren't ya bunky?
 
No shit Sherlock, THAT'S my point! That's why I'm advocating that you need tight regulation on market speculation....so the emphasis is placed on "what is" rather than "what can or should be". Once again the Super Freak-ing Dunce demonstrates his inability to read carefully.

Tell us genius... WHAT level of speculation is 'too much'?

You are friggin insane if you think people are going to stop looking at 'what can happen' or 'what should happen'. Only an idiot would look at past performance and say 'that is good enough for me'.


Well toodles, for the last 30 years the "speculation" has done a lousy job for the vast majority of average wage earning consumers at the gas pump, the grocery store, etc.

You demonstrate my point quite well. You are a fucking moron.

Oil prices were well below $20/brl for the bulk of the 1990's. It got down UNDER $10 in 1999. Tell us moron.... how did that hurt consumers? For the 1980's it was well below $25 for the bulk of the decade.

We kept oil artificially low for decades. how did that hurt the 'average wage earning consumer'????


:palm: Speculation created the false price gouging and barrel price inflation in the first place...you Super Freak-ing Dunce! So people are suppose to be giddy and grateful that speculation falsely pushes up the price, then lowers itself slightly while in the end leaving the gas pump price a little higher than before? Jeez, you are one Super Freak-ing ass kisser for the corporate/neocon causes, aren't ya bunky?

Yes, speculation can indeed get out of control... both to the upside AND to the downside (the point you continue to ignore). It typically happens when there is great uncertainty.

The prime example is 2008. Oil was jacked up to $148/brl on supply shortage speculation. Then the financial market collapsed and oil plunged under $35 brl.

Again, you bitch and moan when it goes up to the $148, then you pretend that the move back down to $35 is 'lowering itself slightly'. That is a massive move to the downside you moron.

This has ZERO to do with corporations you idiot.
 
No shit Sherlock, THAT'S my point! That's why I'm advocating that you need tight regulation on market speculation....so the emphasis is placed on "what is" rather than "what can or should be". Once again the Super Freak-ing Dunce demonstrates his inability to read carefully.
Tell us genius... WHAT level of speculation is 'too much'?

You are friggin insane if you think people are going to stop looking at 'what can happen' or 'what should happen'. Only an idiot would look at past performance and say 'that is good enough for me'.


Here, my Super Freak-ing Dunce....learn something from a farmer, who says it better than I:

Speculation is good when the speculator trades with someone in the real economy and therefore bears real economic risk. Speculation is bad when the market is dominated by speculators trading with each other and, as they become a tiny fraction of the contracts traded, contracts bearing real economic risk stop determining prices. Futures markets are successful only if the amount and nature of speculation is careful monitored to ensure that “enterprise [does not become] the bubble on a whirlpool of speculation” and “the capital development of the country [does not become] a by-product of the activities of a casino.”

http://syntheticassets.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/good-speculation-vs-bad-speculation/


Well toodles, for the last 30 years the "speculation" has done a lousy job for the vast majority of average wage earning consumers at the gas pump, the grocery store, etc.

You demonstrate my point quite well. You are a fucking moron.

Oil prices were well below $20/brl for the bulk of the 1990's. It got down UNDER $10 in 1999. Tell us moron.... how did that hurt consumers? For the 1980's it was well below $25 for the bulk of the decade.

We kept oil artificially low for decades. how did that hurt the 'average wage earning consumer'????

Artificially low for decades.....how old are you? Were you drunk during the 1970's and 1980's, or do you just don't want to deal with that? Do some honest research as to the Oil crisis in the 1970's, or the Oil Glut in 1982....or are you that Super Freak-ing in denial of what speculation can do in combination with other factors. Oh and in case you don't understand what's going on currently:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/business/08cftc.html?_r=1&hp


Speculation created the false price gouging and barrel price inflation in the first place...you Super Freak-ing Dunce! So people are suppose to be giddy and grateful that speculation falsely pushes up the price, then lowers itself slightly while in the end leaving the gas pump price a little higher than before? Jeez, you are one Super Freak-ing ass kisser for the corporate/neocon causes, aren't ya bunky?
Yes, speculation can indeed get out of control... both to the upside AND to the downside (the point you continue to ignore). It typically happens when there is great uncertainty.

I didn't ignore anything, you Super Freak-ing liar. I stated plainly that speculation falsely pushes up prices, then lowers itself slightly while in the end leaving the gas pump price a little higher than before. The only real up side is for the oil companies...the consumer is just getting screwed a LITTLE less.
The prime example is 2008. Oil was jacked up to $148/brl on supply shortage speculation. Then the financial market collapsed and oil plunged under $35 brl.


Again, you bitch and moan when it goes up to the $148, then you pretend that the move back down to $35 is 'lowering itself slightly'. That is a massive move to the downside you moron.

So the greed and avarice of Wall St. and international Banks caused a meltdown that lowered prices, and Super Freak-ing dopes like YOU say that's a good thing? WTF is the matter with you? Had the financial collapse on the Shrub's watch NOT happened, we'd be more or less just as screwed as we are now...or have you not seen the papers regarding gas prices and the job market? Uncontrolled speculation is STILL screwing us over, but Super Freak-ing toadies like you just bend over and smile, because hey, the ideology is everything to POS like you.


This has ZERO to do with corporations you idiot.

Who do you think controls the oil market along with OPEC, you Super Freak-ing Dunce??!! Hint: it ain't George Soros or Media Matters. ;)
 
Who do you think controls the oil market along with OPEC, you Super Freak-ing Dunce??!! Hint: it ain't George Soros or Media Matters. ;)

I will start with this since you are too fucking ignorant to use the quote boxes correctly.

The above is quite simply fucking hilarious.

George Soros made his billions through SPECULATION..... you fucking halfwit.

Media Matters is funded by who?
 
taichi is the exact limosine liberal type that would step over a homeless person to spit on someone wearing fur.

I doubt He/she doesn't reduce driving or flying. Just a double dose of false outrage.
 
Here, my Super Freak-ing Dunce....learn something from a farmer, who says it better than I:

Speculation is good when the speculator trades with someone in the real economy and therefore bears real economic risk. Speculation is bad when the market is dominated by speculators trading with each other and, as they become a tiny fraction of the contracts traded, contracts bearing real economic risk stop determining prices. Futures markets are successful only if the amount and nature of speculation is careful monitored to ensure that “enterprise [does not become] the bubble on a whirlpool of speculation” and “the capital development of the country [does not become] a by-product of the activities of a casino.”

The above is simply nonsense. Everyone who trades contracts is a part of the 'real economy'. They ALL bare economic risk. Like anything, speculation can be extreme... typically during periods of great uncertainty.... as I stated and you ignored. Trying to 'police' the speculation in terms of an attempt to determine how much speculation is 'too much' is simply moronic. It would be completely arbitrary and subjective.

I didn't ignore anything, you Super Freak-ing liar. I stated plainly that speculation falsely pushes up prices, then lowers itself slightly while in the end leaving the gas pump price a little higher than before. The only real up side is for the oil companies...the consumer is just getting screwed a LITTLE less.

Yes you did ignore it and you just did the exact same thing above. Pretending that speculation 'lowered it slightly'.... is completely FALSE.

Tell us moron.... do you honestly want to continue pretending that a drop from $148/brl to $37/brl is a 'slight drop'???????

So the greed and avarice of Wall St. and international Banks caused a meltdown that lowered prices, and Super Freak-ing dopes like YOU say that's a good thing? WTF is the matter with you? Had the financial collapse on the Shrub's watch NOT happened, we'd be more or less just as screwed as we are now...or have you not seen the papers regarding gas prices and the job market? Uncontrolled speculation is STILL screwing us over, but Super Freak-ing toadies like you just bend over and smile, because hey, the ideology is everything to POS like you.

ah... more moronic parroting from you....

1) While Wall St certainly played a huge role in the economic meltdown... they would not have had the opportunity if the idiots in DC had not repealed Glass Steagall. I have repeatedly stated that Glass Steagall needs to be reimplemented and the big banks thus broken back up. But I know, the facts don't matter to you. They get in the way of your moronic chanting.

2) What 'uncontrolled' speculation? Speculation is what drives the market. It always has, it always will. The greater the uncertainty in the future, the greater the speculation is another fact that has remained constant. If you want to 'control' speculation to 'acceptable levels' or whatever you are trying to project, then you eliminate as much of the uncertainty as possible.
 
taichi is the exact limosine liberal type that would step over a homeless person to spit on someone wearing fur.

I doubt He/she doesn't reduce driving or flying. Just a double dose of false outrage.

The fact that he tried to champion George Soros is quite possibly the funniest thing since Ditzie tried defending his 1/3 nonsense again.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Who do you think controls the oil market along with OPEC, you Super Freak-ing Dunce??!! Hint: it ain't George Soros or Media Matters.
I will start with this since you are too fucking ignorant to use the quote boxes correctly.

The above is quite simply fucking hilarious.

George Soros made his billions through SPECULATION..... you fucking halfwit.

Media Matters is funded by who?

:palm: The Super Freak-ing Dunce strikes again!

Go back and read your own words, you Super Freak-ing buffoon....YOU said that corporations have nothing to do with oil prices.

WTF do you think Exxon Mobil, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Chevron, and Conoco-Phillips are, bunky? And if it hasn't sunk in yet, take a gander at this, my Super Freak-ing Dunce http://ir.exxonmobil.com/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=115024&eventID=3646666

Soros DOES NOT sit on the board of any of the forementioned corporations, does he bunky? I never said that Soros DIDN'T make his money off of a system that is broken, did I? Remember, my initial statement was that speculation should be better regulated, NOT eliminated. If YOU weren't such a Super Freak-ing neocon tool hell bent on "gett'in the libbies", you'd have noted that.

And if you can prove that Media Matters is funded by the above oil corporations, please provide it. Carry on, bunky.
 
taichi is the exact limosine liberal type that would step over a homeless person to spit on someone wearing fur.

I doubt He/she doesn't reduce driving or flying. Just a double dose of false outrage.

Amazing how you occasionally forget your meds and start babbling as if you actually know something. I notice you can't fault what I stated. Sorry if some honest critical thinking disturbs your world view, but no one said life was easy. Carry on.
 
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