No, just the ones in the military. You'll note that there are doctors listed as "Physician" only, without any title of Officer attached.
Oh No! They want to cut VA spending!! OMGzers!
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
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PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
while there are specific needs for services VA provides for injuries unique to service personnel, like trauma injury and psychological effects of military service, it would seem to me that we should permit veterans to obtain medical services wherever they wish......
Good Luck
New member
Medical insurance (full coverage, zero deductible, zero copay for deployment related illnesses or injuries) for vets, as opposed to a separate, bloated (as is typical of any government agency) inefficient and political football bureaucracy? For any needed specialization, let the military itself run combat trauma centers. An O-7 (brigadier general) with 30 years in still makes less than the lowest paid "medical officer" in the list provided, and I'd bet any subordinates (O-6 down to E2) in a military run hospital would also cost less than the civilian equivalent working in most VA hospitals.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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Keep in mind, the list I posted was just the top 250 or so, there was another 3-4 pages of people making well over $100k a year, it just went on and on. And this is JUST for Alabama! I challenge you all to go look up this information for your own states, and see if the VA "Medical Officers" are at the top of the endless list elsewhere. The more I think about this, the more it blows my mind. No freaking wonder we are in such trouble with our debt!
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WinterBorn
Guest
You really are an idiot. I used your quote as part of my comment to Dixie.
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WinterBorn
Guest
It does boggle my mind. I think some of this is due to the buildup from the war, but its hard to see any justification for the salaries.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Liar.
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WinterBorn
Guest
How is it hard to see any justification for the salaries? Doctors earn a lot of money. Surgeons earn a lot of money. If you want good doctors and surgeons to work for the VA, you have to pay them commensurate with what they would earn in private practice.
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The Almighty
yet, it ISN'T the same job necessarily ditzie. Just from your list, it was pointed out that there were family practitioners, dentists, surgeons etc... Just because they all share the same title, doesn't mean they are the same.
Side note... those salaries are not that high. Go take a look at what each of them pays for malpractice insurance, repayment of student loans etc...
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The Almighty
http://www.bop.gov/jobs/job_descriptions/medical_officer.jsp
So, the government defines medical officer completely different when talking about the VA and Federal Prisons? Funny, I would think they would be the same...
The thing is ditzie, you haven't proven anything. While you can find SOME medical officers at the VA that ARE administrative positions, you cannot extrapolate that into 'all employees designated medical officers are administrative'
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The Almighty
Also Ditzie.... there are 20 VA facilities in Alabama. Serving over 400,000 Veterans.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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Like I already said four times in this thread, I don't care if they are healing lepers or finding the cure for cancer... Alabama doesn't need 250 of them at over $200k a pop! It's just a bit excessive, even IF they are all practicing physicians and surgeons, which I'll be willing to bet, they are not. Most of these cats are pencil pushers, they've amassed these huge Federal salaries because everyone is afraid to cut VA spending! It's become a 'third rail' kind of thing, no one wants to touch it, and this is an example of where that leads. In addition to the $200k+ salaries they get, they also have a benefits package any of us would DREAM of having, pensions, perks, the works!
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The Almighty
Also ditzie.... there are roughly 300 'Medical Officers' in AL.
That is one per 1300 (approximately) vets. Assuming a standard 5 day work week and two weeks vacation, that means they see about 5 Vets per day.... assuming each Vet averages one visit per year.
Who wants to bet the average visit per year is higher than one?
The outpatient visits in AL were about 1.1 million. Which equates to almost 15 Vets seen each day, by each medical officer (on average). Obviously specialists likely see fewer and family practitioners more.
Just my opinion, but that doesn't seem to equate to the VA being overstaffed in AL.
www.va.gov/opa/publications/factsheets/ss_alabama.pdf
That is one per 1300 (approximately) vets. Assuming a standard 5 day work week and two weeks vacation, that means they see about 5 Vets per day.... assuming each Vet averages one visit per year.
Who wants to bet the average visit per year is higher than one?
The outpatient visits in AL were about 1.1 million. Which equates to almost 15 Vets seen each day, by each medical officer (on average). Obviously specialists likely see fewer and family practitioners more.
Just my opinion, but that doesn't seem to equate to the VA being overstaffed in AL.
www.va.gov/opa/publications/factsheets/ss_alabama.pdf
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The Almighty
Dixie - In Memoriam
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No, I am not wrong. No one has proven that the 250 people I listed, are all practicing physicians who are seeing 5 vets per day on average. This is an assumption you are making, a 'leap' from one piece of information to another, without any corroboration.
I happen to know quite a few vets who go to the VA, and I have never heard ANY of them PRAISE the VA for their stellar top-notch services! So even if all these pencil pushing administrators you CLAIM are practicing physicians, are actually working with patients, we aren't getting our money's worth.
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The Almighty
1) take a look at the link you provided. The ADMIN people are listed as ADMIN. YOU are the one assuming that the doctors are not practicing.
2) I am not making 'assumptions' on the number of VETS being seen. It is simple math (well, for most of us... I know you have a problem with basic math). IF any of the 300 or so Medical Officers is purely admin... then the average seen is more than the 15 I mentioned.... and those are just the outpatients.
3) I am not 'claiming' that all of them are practicing, but who the fuck do you think IS practicing? The lab techs?
4) The reason you don't hear great things about the VA.... do you think it is because they are UNDERSTAFFED or OVERSTAFFED with quality doctors?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Some Administrators are listed as Administrators. This doesn't mean that everyone listed as "Medical Officer" is not in an administrative position! Just like it doesn't mean they are all practicing physicians who see patients.
The list I linked has over 12 pages of people, I only posted the top 250. There are about 7 more pages full of people who make less than $200k, including plenty of "Medical Officers".
No, the lowly government lab techs are on down the list, they only make about $80k a year! I just don't know how they survive on that!
I don't know, maybe it's because all these people making a quarter of a million dollars a year, are too busy polishing their yachts and Ferraris to see patients?
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The Almighty
As I stated ditzie... yes, some may indeed be admin. With 20 sites that is to be expected. That said, YOU tried to imply they were all paper pushers, that they were all admin. On that you are 100% incorrect.
Yes, I also went to the site, which is why I stated there were about 300 (note, a different number than what you posted)
Tell us ditzie... what do you think lab techs do?
I don't know, maybe it's because all these people making a quarter of a million dollars a year, are too busy polishing their yachts and Ferraris to see patients?[/QUOTE]
You think people making $250k own Ferraris and yachts?
Have you once stopped to pull your head out of your ass long enough to realize that those salaries do not reflect malpractice premiums, student loans etc... as I mentioned to your moronic ass earlier.
Dixie - In Memoriam
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I implied they were all "Medical Officers" because that is how they are listed, and I implied what the job description in Memphis, TN for a VA Medical Officer entailed, because that was what they posted online. Some pinhead (Yurt, I think) implied they were all practicing physicians, but I've seen no proof of that. You've implied that some are and some aren't, but again, with nothing to back that claim up.
Then you can't count. There were over 250 "Medical Officers" making over $200k per year, and that was only about 3 pages of the 12 posted. There are substantially more than 300 medical officers working for the VA in Alabama, I don't know how many "medical officers" serve in the official capacity as "practicing physician" or if ANY of them do, as a requirement of their "medical officer" status. All I know is, the job description in Memphis didn't sound like you'd be seeing patients. That's not to say, someone qualified to be a "medical officer" wouldn't also be a practicing physician, but that just isn't part of the job description, as posted by the VA in Memphis.
Whatever they do, it's probably not as demanding as the jobs MOST of us have making HALF that amount!
I would! Especially if I didn't have to ever worry about my job security or retirement, and had every imaginable federal employee benefit... why the hell not own a yacht and Ferrari? Now, I admit, I would probably hire some idiot to polish them for me, so I could soak in my Hot Tub with a bevy of blondes with fake boobs, but hey... that's just me.
First of all, any practicing physician with the VA, is not paying for their own malpractice insurance, since they work for Uncle Sam. Secondly, I would assume that most people who would qualify to be a "medical officer" for the VA, probably has some experience in the military, which means their school was paid for by the Montgomery GI Bill.
But let's clear this up, I am not complaining that VA doctors make too much money, or that ANY doctor makes too much money. I am complaining that we don't need 200+ VA "medical officers" making over $200k a year in Alabama alone. I think we could probably make do with fewer of the "administrators" and could probably hire a few more actual "doctors" with that money. Or maybe we could afford to care for more vets? In any event, when someone like a Michelle Bachmann, proposes modest cuts in the budget for the VA, and Liberals go into 'screaming conniption' mode, we need to remember this list... We need to grasp the understanding that Federal Employees Unions have gotten way out of control, and we just can't afford this shit anymore.