Filibuster - A Dive into the Crazy Life of the Filibuster - Let's Be Honest - It Must Go

^^^
Drug addicted moron doesn't know that land originally belonged to Maryland. Give it back to them. Easy Peasy.

4x3lf5.jpg

^^^^Dumbass doesn't understand that giving it back to Maryland (and Virginia) does not give the Dems another Senator that they want. If DC residents want representation and want to go back into Maryland and Virginia I'm OK with it.
 
^^^^Dumbass doesn't understand that giving it back to Maryland (and Virginia) does not give the Dems another Senator that they want. If DC residents want representation and want to go back into Maryland and Virginia I'm OK with it.
^^^
Too deranged to realize she's advocating for the Democrats. :rofl2::ROFLMAO::rofl2:

If you were smarter and less deranged to to substance abuse, Ms. Fat Lame, you'd realize what you are saying versus what I've recommended.

Just say "NO" to drugs, girl. :thup:
 
1. Puerto Rico Statehood 2. DC statehood. 3.Citizenship for tens of millions of illegals. 4. Five more liberal Supreme Court justices.
It's wordy, sorry.

If the American people give them all three houses and they do those things, we deserve it. The alternative is what? The reality we face, not what we wish was true or what should be true. Democrats will not allow any bill at all to pass for as long as they have more than 42 seats in the Senate. That is not going to change. Even after Trump, if Vance or Rubio takes the White House, we will see the same for another four years.

Why do I think this? Right now, Trump has proposed three items that all have historical levels of support from all demographics. The super high percentage of support from all American are at 'levels never seen before', 80%. Only one Democrat is representing his constituents, actually doing his job. You would need to search long and hard for the last bill that had such high approval from all Americans in every demographic.

Well, actually, you'd find plenty unless you went back before the left lost their collective mind. They are not serious people anymore, they are absurd human beings. They're akin to negotiating with Hamas or the IRGC. Democrats are truly completely disconnected from reality and blatantly, in your face, intentionally disingenuous, lying with reckless abandon while keeping a straight face. No joke. Just look at what they're doing right now with HSA, they're truly insane. You can't negotiate with crazy.

Without eliminating the filibuster, only reconciliation bills will ever pass. Those are restricted to changes in revenues, mandatory spending, and the debt limit, and they must follow very strict rules. The Save Act will never happen, and every one of those concerns you mentioned aren't going anywhere. Each one will happen if and when Democrats win Congress and the White House. They'll claim the high ground until they can make use of eliminating the filibuster, like the republican could be right now, if we didn't have so many cowards in the Senate. Those concerns of yours will just be a warmup for what the insane radicals have in mind.

How do we stop it? The only way I see is to eliminate the filibuster and pass every wish list item Republicans have ever claimed they wanted to achieve for years. That needs to include the Save Act, if they did, we will win the midterms and in 28. If that happened and the democrats continue down their current path, they will not win the White House again until they return to reality if possible, and how long that will take is anyone's guess. That is how I see it. I can't stress enough that it's a stupid rule about debating not voting for the bill. There are so many way they could ensure that a robust debate happens on any proposed bill without allowing the debate itself to stop a vote from ever happening. A simple rule with a time limit for the minority would do the trick.
 
We should get rid of it noon January 3rd, 2026.:evilnod:
Of course not now. You'll need to cheat to win in 26 and 28. Can't have the Save Act no matter what. Forget that 8 of 10 Americans want it done, we must ignore them. It's for their own good, they don't realize how difficult getting an ID can be for them regular folk. Once again, the libtard is ignoring their voters for their own good.
 
A Dive into the Crazy Life of the Filibuster (Republicans and Democrats can both agree on this one)

I strongly believe the filibuster needs to go. This is not a new thought for me, I've been frustrated with the ridiculous filibuster for many years. It was never some sacred Founders' design or deliberate check on majority tyranny; it was pure accident born from a sloppy rule change in 1806, and later on when it was discovered, politicians being the same 'opportunistic' people then as now, latched onto it, tweaking the mechanics over time into the perfect coward's tool: talk tough on popular issues, blame the other side for blocking, and never actually deliver a vote that might force them to own the outcome. This is why establishment politicians on both sides of the isle get very squirely when anyone talks about getting rid of it.

Here's how this slow-motion betrayal unfolded, starting with the original screw-up that nobody saw coming.

In 1806, Vice President Burr (you remember, the duel with Hamilton) complained that the Senate rulebook was bloated with redundant junk. Senators agreed and deleted a bunch of old procedures, including the one that let a simple majority cut off debate. They forgot to replace it. Oops. Unlimited debate was accidentally baked in with no kill switch. For decades nobody noticed because actual filibusters stayed rare, used only a handful of times from 1806 to 1917, like in 1837 over expunging Andrew Jackson's censure, 1841 on Henry Clay's national bank recharter, the 1850s slavery debates where pro-slavery Democrats talked anti-slavery bills to death, and finally 1917's endless filibuster on arming merchant ships for WWI. One guy could talk forever, but holding the floor nonstop was exhausting, socially toxic, and politically suicidal. Obstruction happened, but it cost real political capital and because of that, it was still rare, with major legislation still passing when majorities muscled through and no easy excuses for hiding behind procedure.

1917-1975:

In 1917 Woodrow Wilson fumed after a filibuster killed arming merchant ships for WWI, so they added Rule 22. Cloture was born, (A threshold that must be hit to move to a vote in the Senate.) introduced at two-thirds (about 67 votes). A supermajority could finally end forever debates, (remember 2 or 3 Senators could hold up any bills. Think the squad. So, 67 seemed very doable at that time.) but it wasn't long before hitting that bar was near-impossible on divisive issues. Southern Democrats mastered the game, killing civil rights bills, anti-lynching measures, and voting rights expansions for decades despite majority support in the chamber. Cloture votes stayed infrequent, meaning nothing got through to an actual vote. But, like everything else, democrats could never accept was the majority wanted, so as time passed the real talking filibusters started to hurt, and visible obstruction carried a high political price. Getting big things done crawled, but the blame game wasn't as effortless as it was at first, so more tweaks were a must.

1975: cloture lowered to 60 votes with the added bonus that you no longer needed to debate at all. Reformers pitched it as the fix to speed things up and tame the beast. Epic backfire. Cloture motions exploded from a handful per year to dozens, then 50-plus annually in recent cycles. The silent filibuster and two-track system let the minority just threaten without ever opening their mouths; bills die quietly while the Senate pretends to move on other business. Productivity cratered. We went from passing thousands of bills in the mid-20th century to scraping by with under 5 percent of introduced legislation today, floor time devoured by procedural trench warfare. Everything became a de facto 60-vote threshold except budget gimmicks and nuked nominations.

Each 'reform' handed both party's better camouflage. The 1806 blunder created the vacuum. Early on, obstruction was raw and punishing. The two-thirds era formalized it but kept the pain visible. The 60-vote switch made it effortless: object, force the majority to scramble or fold, then campaign on 'I fought for it, but those obstructionists!'

Democrats used it, Republicans returned fire. The result isn't thoughtful debate. It's perfected cowardly governance where appearing to support popular laws trumps ever passing them. The filibuster didn't protect the Senate; it perfected the art of never having to stand for anything. Time to scrap the relic and force actual accountability. It's was a brilliant design. The house a group of 535 Americans spread across the country elected every two years must pass a bill. Then the Senate, two from every State must pass with a simple majority, elected every six years. Then the President must sign it (the only guy beside the VP elected by all the people every four years. It's brilliant, but the filibuster ruins accountability and hampers what the people voted for more times than not.

It's time to get rid of it. What is a good reason not to?

View attachment 78572
I couldn't agree more. It is a useless tool that is seldom used for doing the right thing, but these days, merely obstructing and doing nothing productive,
 
A Dive into the Crazy Life of the Filibuster (Republicans and Democrats can both agree on this one)

I strongly believe the filibuster needs to go. This is not a new thought for me, I've been frustrated with the ridiculous filibuster for many years. It was never some sacred Founders' design or deliberate check on majority tyranny; it was pure accident born from a sloppy rule change in 1806, and later on when it was discovered, politicians being the same 'opportunistic' people then as now, latched onto it, tweaking the mechanics over time into the perfect coward's tool: talk tough on popular issues, blame the other side for blocking, and never actually deliver a vote that might force them to own the outcome. This is why establishment politicians on both sides of the isle get very squirely when anyone talks about getting rid of it.

Here's how this slow-motion betrayal unfolded, starting with the original screw-up that nobody saw coming.

In 1806, Vice President Burr (you remember, the duel with Hamilton) complained that the Senate rulebook was bloated with redundant junk. Senators agreed and deleted a bunch of old procedures, including the one that let a simple majority cut off debate. They forgot to replace it. Oops. Unlimited debate was accidentally baked in with no kill switch. For decades nobody noticed because actual filibusters stayed rare, used only a handful of times from 1806 to 1917, like in 1837 over expunging Andrew Jackson's censure, 1841 on Henry Clay's national bank recharter, the 1850s slavery debates where pro-slavery Democrats talked anti-slavery bills to death, and finally 1917's endless filibuster on arming merchant ships for WWI. One guy could talk forever, but holding the floor nonstop was exhausting, socially toxic, and politically suicidal. Obstruction happened, but it cost real political capital and because of that, it was still rare, with major legislation still passing when majorities muscled through and no easy excuses for hiding behind procedure.

1917-1975:

In 1917 Woodrow Wilson fumed after a filibuster killed arming merchant ships for WWI, so they added Rule 22. Cloture was born, (A threshold that must be hit to move to a vote in the Senate.) introduced at two-thirds (about 67 votes). A supermajority could finally end forever debates, (remember 2 or 3 Senators could hold up any bills. Think the squad. So, 67 seemed very doable at that time.) but it wasn't long before hitting that bar was near-impossible on divisive issues. Southern Democrats mastered the game, killing civil rights bills, anti-lynching measures, and voting rights expansions for decades despite majority support in the chamber. Cloture votes stayed infrequent, meaning nothing got through to an actual vote. But, like everything else, democrats could never accept was the majority wanted, so as time passed the real talking filibusters started to hurt, and visible obstruction carried a high political price. Getting big things done crawled, but the blame game wasn't as effortless as it was at first, so more tweaks were a must.

1975: cloture lowered to 60 votes with the added bonus that you no longer needed to debate at all. Reformers pitched it as the fix to speed things up and tame the beast. Epic backfire. Cloture motions exploded from a handful per year to dozens, then 50-plus annually in recent cycles. The silent filibuster and two-track system let the minority just threaten without ever opening their mouths; bills die quietly while the Senate pretends to move on other business. Productivity cratered. We went from passing thousands of bills in the mid-20th century to scraping by with under 5 percent of introduced legislation today, floor time devoured by procedural trench warfare. Everything became a de facto 60-vote threshold except budget gimmicks and nuked nominations.

Each 'reform' handed both party's better camouflage. The 1806 blunder created the vacuum. Early on, obstruction was raw and punishing. The two-thirds era formalized it but kept the pain visible. The 60-vote switch made it effortless: object, force the majority to scramble or fold, then campaign on 'I fought for it, but those obstructionists!'

Democrats used it, Republicans returned fire. The result isn't thoughtful debate. It's perfected cowardly governance where appearing to support popular laws trumps ever passing them. The filibuster didn't protect the Senate; it perfected the art of never having to stand for anything. Time to scrap the relic and force actual accountability. It's was a brilliant design. The house a group of 535 Americans spread across the country elected every two years must pass a bill. Then the Senate, two from every State must pass with a simple majority, elected every six years. Then the President must sign it (the only guy beside the VP elected by all the people every four years. It's brilliant, but the filibuster ruins accountability and hampers what the people voted for more times than not.

It's time to get rid of it. What is a good reason not to?

View attachment 78572
If the filibuster ends the Senate just becomes another majority based entity just like the House, the two would be redundant and unnecessary. If such was the case we might as well become a Parliamentary government
 
I'm going to make a prediction that I don't like and the democrats will. The Save Act doesn't happen. Why? I've watched more than one of the 'strong supporters' put on really good shows about how hard they're fighting and how hard they will fight. They want to do the old pre-75 talking filibuster so they can really put on a show. Each time, they are sure to say, 'I don't know if we'll succeed, but I know this, if we don't fight and fight hard, I don't think we'll be forgiven. Wrong answer. We're sick of you 'trying really hard' kind of my whole point about the filibuster. We won't forgive you if you don't get it done. They somehow need to understand that.
The Save Act won't happen because the Republicans want something they can run on that isn't "Boy we like us some Trump!"
 
If the filibuster ends the Senate just becomes another majority based entity just like the House, the two would be redundant and unnecessary. If such was the case we might as well become a Parliamentary government
It is a majority based entity. Do you deny how it came to be? Do you deny how it's used? The system is brilliant as designed. The Senate can still debate and should. There is zero reason to make a dumbass rule that essentially allows you to debate endlessly. In fact, they never did make that dumbass rule, they just inadvertently removed a sensible rule for ending debate and quite literally forget to replace it. Also, I'll point out again, the sixty votes are only to end debate, the law passes on majority rule, period. It's insane not to have a way to end debate. Why isn't there? For the exact reasons I laid out.
 
A Dive into the Crazy Life of the Filibuster (Republicans and Democrats can both agree on this one)

I strongly believe the filibuster needs to go. This is not a new thought for me, I've been frustrated with the ridiculous filibuster for many years. It was never some sacred Founders' design or deliberate check on majority tyranny; it was pure accident born from a sloppy rule change in 1806, and later on when it was discovered, politicians being the same 'opportunistic' people then as now, latched onto it, tweaking the mechanics over time into the perfect coward's tool: talk tough on popular issues, blame the other side for blocking, and never actually deliver a vote that might force them to own the outcome. This is why establishment politicians on both sides of the isle get very squirely when anyone talks about getting rid of it.

Here's how this slow-motion betrayal unfolded, starting with the original screw-up that nobody saw coming.

In 1806, Vice President Burr (you remember, the duel with Hamilton) complained that the Senate rulebook was bloated with redundant junk. Senators agreed and deleted a bunch of old procedures, including the one that let a simple majority cut off debate. They forgot to replace it. Oops. Unlimited debate was accidentally baked in with no kill switch. For decades nobody noticed because actual filibusters stayed rare, used only a handful of times from 1806 to 1917, like in 1837 over expunging Andrew Jackson's censure, 1841 on Henry Clay's national bank recharter, the 1850s slavery debates where pro-slavery Democrats talked anti-slavery bills to death, and finally 1917's endless filibuster on arming merchant ships for WWI. One guy could talk forever, but holding the floor nonstop was exhausting, socially toxic, and politically suicidal. Obstruction happened, but it cost real political capital and because of that, it was still rare, with major legislation still passing when majorities muscled through and no easy excuses for hiding behind procedure.

1917-1975:

In 1917 Woodrow Wilson fumed after a filibuster killed arming merchant ships for WWI, so they added Rule 22. Cloture was born, (A threshold that must be hit to move to a vote in the Senate.) introduced at two-thirds (about 67 votes). A supermajority could finally end forever debates, (remember 2 or 3 Senators could hold up any bills. Think the squad. So, 67 seemed very doable at that time.) but it wasn't long before hitting that bar was near-impossible on divisive issues. Southern Democrats mastered the game, killing civil rights bills, anti-lynching measures, and voting rights expansions for decades despite majority support in the chamber. Cloture votes stayed infrequent, meaning nothing got through to an actual vote. But, like everything else, democrats could never accept was the majority wanted, so as time passed the real talking filibusters started to hurt, and visible obstruction carried a high political price. Getting big things done crawled, but the blame game wasn't as effortless as it was at first, so more tweaks were a must.

1975: cloture lowered to 60 votes with the added bonus that you no longer needed to debate at all. Reformers pitched it as the fix to speed things up and tame the beast. Epic backfire. Cloture motions exploded from a handful per year to dozens, then 50-plus annually in recent cycles. The silent filibuster and two-track system let the minority just threaten without ever opening their mouths; bills die quietly while the Senate pretends to move on other business. Productivity cratered. We went from passing thousands of bills in the mid-20th century to scraping by with under 5 percent of introduced legislation today, floor time devoured by procedural trench warfare. Everything became a de facto 60-vote threshold except budget gimmicks and nuked nominations.

Each 'reform' handed both party's better camouflage. The 1806 blunder created the vacuum. Early on, obstruction was raw and punishing. The two-thirds era formalized it but kept the pain visible. The 60-vote switch made it effortless: object, force the majority to scramble or fold, then campaign on 'I fought for it, but those obstructionists!'

Democrats used it, Republicans returned fire. The result isn't thoughtful debate. It's perfected cowardly governance where appearing to support popular laws trumps ever passing them. The filibuster didn't protect the Senate; it perfected the art of never having to stand for anything. Time to scrap the relic and force actual accountability. It's was a brilliant design. The house a group of 535 Americans spread across the country elected every two years must pass a bill. Then the Senate, two from every State must pass with a simple majority, elected every six years. Then the President must sign it (the only guy beside the VP elected by all the people every four years. It's brilliant, but the filibuster ruins accountability and hampers what the people voted for more times than not.

It's time to get rid of it. What is a good reason not to?

View attachment 78572

I don't agree.

While it is expedient to get rid of the filibuster to pass the SAVE act and stop the massive election fraud that defines democrats. But the filibuster is the only thing that makes the Senate make sense. If we get rid of the filibuster we should get rid of the Senate as meaningless. It no longer represents states and simply has no reason to exist.

That said - democrats will end the filibuster the SECOND they gain control - so Republicans might as well do it now and pass the SAVE act to stop democrat fraud.
 
I don't agree.

While it is expedient to get rid of the filibuster to pass the SAVE act and stop the massive election fraud that defines democrats. But the filibuster is the only thing that makes the Senate make sense. If we get rid of the filibuster we should get rid of the Senate as meaningless. It no longer represents states and simply has no reason to exist.

That said - democrats will end the filibuster the SECOND they gain control - so Republicans might as well do it now and pass the SAVE act to stop democrat fraud.
Honestly, I just heard this from Damo, I have no idea how you think it makes the Senate 'meaningless.' If that's true, why not actually require a 60 vote majority for all bills? How does that make your Senator better represent you in your State? Also, Why the change in 1917 and then again in 1975? That last one? That's when the Senate became a non-representative to their constituents. The Senate became the place to deny the electorates will. Remember the President must sign the Bill. He's the only one all the People elect and they do so every four years. That President should be able to move his or her popular agenda whether we like it or not. Since 75, power was consolidated in the Senate, that's why they love it so.
 
It is a majority based entity. Do you deny how it came to be? Do you deny how it's used? The system is brilliant as designed. The Senate can still debate and should. There is zero reason to make a dumbass rule that essentially allows you to debate endlessly. In fact, they never did make that dumbass rule, they just inadvertently removed a sensible rule for ending debate and quite literally forget to replace it. Also, I'll point out again, the sixty votes are only to end debate, the law passes on majority rule, period. It's insane not to have a way to end debate. Why isn't there? For the exact reasons I laid out.
Debate can end thru compromise

The Senate was intended to be the more cerebral, the higher entity, if you remove the filibuster you eliminate any need to even discuss issues, it becomes all majority based, and given the term is six years, even less respective of voters
 
Debate can end thru compromise

The Senate was intended to be the more cerebral, the higher entity, if you remove the filibuster you eliminate any need to even discuss issues, it becomes all majority based, and given the term is six years, even less respective of voters
How is that working out? How could it possibly ever work? Right now, Democrats are literally pretending that compromise means giving them exactly what they want, regardless of the fact that they lost the election. Their absurd ideas failed, as they should have. They are literally causing regular people who have nothing to do with their mental illnesses and they're not the radical nutjobs that will protest at democrat's homes and holler at them in the halls for 'caving.' These are just ordinary folks doing their jobs and expecting to get paid and they need to get paid. Democrats are saying no, you do not get paid until Republicans give us what we could not achieve through the electoral system.

The founders understood how petty, despicable, immoral, sanctimonious, and greedy politicians could be. That is exactly why they never wanted the losers of an election to have the power to act like spiteful little bitches without regard for who or what they are hurting. They never intended to need any of the losers of the election. Of course they'll be spiteful, I doubt they could have ever imagined how spiteful they could be. Democrats have demonstrated perfectly why there is no compromise with crazy. They didn't want it and they didn't write it that way either, for good reason.

Abolish ICE, say the morons. Hold the HSA hostage while we are at full terrorist threat level. Brilliant. Democrats are less trustworthy than negotiating with the Iranian regime. They are less popular than herpes right now too. Give me a break with this talk of compromise. That has always been an illusion. Now it is blatantly obvious that it is a fantasy. Democrats are so insanely crazy right now that they must be defeated, not compromised with.
 
The Save Act won't happen because the Republicans want something they can run on that isn't "Boy we like us some Trump!"

If the Republicans fail to pass the SAVE act they signal to the democrats that massive fraud is fine with them. They lose the house and control of the country.

I never underestimate how stupid Republicans are - so they may do it - but joining democrats on the 20% side of an 80/20 issue is utter stupidity.
 
Honestly, I just heard this from Damo, I have no idea how you think it makes the Senate 'meaningless.' If that's true, why not actually require a 60 vote majority for all bills? How does that make your Senator better represent you in your State? Also, Why the change in 1917 and then again in 1975? That last one? That's when the Senate became a non-representative to their constituents. The Senate became the place to deny the electorates will. Remember the President must sign the Bill. He's the only one all the People elect and they do so every four years. That President should be able to move his or her popular agenda whether we like it or not. Since 75, power was consolidated in the Senate, that's why they love it so.

I see that foul cunt NHB is still corrupting the board by maniacally negging every post. I've asked Damo to set the board so that if you have a person - or in this case subhuman on ignore, they can't use the "like" feature on your posts. I know this can be done because DP does this and uses the same forum software. It does little good to put trolls on iggy if they can still follow you around and shit on your posts.

Anyway, back to the subject.

The Senate was created by the founding fathers as a voice for the states. The House as a voice for the people. We have in large already destroyed the purpose of the Senate by corrupting the appointment of Senators by governors or legislatures of the states and placing them in popular elections. Meaning they serve the interests of the mob pimping for the popular vote rather than representing the interests of the state that originally would appoint them..

In this way the Senate is already redundant and serves no purpose distinct from the House. The one saving grace of the Senate is the ability of the minority party to effect a veto through the use of filibuster. Absent this, how does the Senate differ from the House? It doesn't and is redundant. Best to abolish it.
 
Debate can end thru compromise

The Marxists don't compromise. And the Republicans lack a spine.

Look at the mess the Marxists have made with their terrorist act of "Open the border or we close the airports." What have the Americans done to country the terrorism of Schumer and his thugs? Not a damned thing.

The Senate was intended to be the more cerebral, the higher entity, if you remove the filibuster you eliminate any need to even discuss issues, it becomes all majority based, and given the term is six years, even less respective of voters

Funny you weren't saying that when the Marxist thugs were moving to end the filibuster two years ago. And you won't be saying it if/when the Marxists once again control the Senate.

Because we KNOW what frauds and hypocrites you Marxists are, the Republicans should go ahead and end it to push through the SAVE act, thwarting the massive election fraud democrats depend on. The second ending it is advantageous to the Maoist dims, they will do it. Mights as well get something from it since it is inevitable.
 
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