Athiests Obviously Believe in SOMETHING!

Dixie said:
No, I am not misusing the language, I know what "know" means, and I know God is there. It's not that it "seems real" to me, it's a matter of feeling the presence around me, my personal experiences and witness to the power of God. Now, I don't know that the entity prefers the label "God" or if it really gives one whit whether we believe in it, but I do know it's there.

And I don't need for you to believe in anything, it is not the least bit important to me. As a human, with human compassion for my fellow man, I would like for others to be happy, content, and fulfilled in life, because life is too short to spend it miserable and frustrated. By perhaps helping someone come to terms with their denial, maybe it will one day change their life. It's really no different than getting your drunk uncle to go to AA or something.
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And my four year old KNOWS there is a Santa. He has seen him, sat on his lap, asked for certain presents and gotten them. Santa is MORE real to him than god is to you. But as you said earlier, both beliefs are goofy, in an adult.
 
Ohcapzag said:
WTF?
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The point is clear. Kids believe in Santa because we make it real for them by dressing up, pretending the presents magically appeared on Christmas eve and lie to them about it. It is not an unexplainable phenomena. My honest opinion is that it is a fucked up custom to truly try to make it real.

I honestly can't remember actually believing in any of it. The truck that came to deliver my presents woke me up and I watched mom and someone who obviously was not Santa unload them. I always knew the guy in the suit was an uncle. It was all just pretend and I did not mind playing along.
 
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Ice Dancer said:
You are so wrong. The author's premise only rests on Proposition A. in order to submit Proposition B. It is a tried and true position of philosophical study.

All Dixie has been proposing (which he should just give up on due to the stiff necked idiocy of his audience) is that there seems to be a driving force in man that causes him to seek the spiritual; his premis is that even in calling oneself an atheist seems to lend proof of this as evidenced by the need to deny the spiritual.

For further reading to those who actually want to explore the idea.

Dix if I have wrongly misrepresented you feel free to correct me :)
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It's absolutely wrong and I just demonstrated it conclusively. As I said, using logic to prove metaphysics makes about as much sense as using faith to explain a ham sandwhich.
 
Ice Dancer said:
You are so wrong. The author's premise only rests on Proposition A. in order to submit Proposition B. It is a tried and true position of philosophical study.

All Dixie has been proposing (which he should just give up on due to the stiff necked idiocy of his audience) is that there seems to be a driving force in man that causes him to seek the spiritual; his premis is that even in calling oneself an atheist seems to lend proof of this as evidenced by the need to deny the spiritual.

For further reading to those who actually want to explore the idea.

Dix if I have wrongly misrepresented you feel free to correct me :)
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ID, you got it right, it's nice to know someone understood the point. It's pretty astonishing at the number of responses to this thread in a day. It has to be some kind of record here, as Atheists burn up the keyboards to prove my point. But read closely, they aren't just responding to my argument, they are trying desperately to destroy my argument, to discredit me personally, to throw any monkey wrench they can find into the Truth Machine! They've attempted to divert the topic into a debate of religious philosophy, they've tried using their own flawed misconceptions of God, whatever it takes, because it is as if they must "win" this argument, although it's something they claim not to care about or believe in. Isn't that a bit odd? To go to the mat with those kind of extremes, over something that doesn't matter to you?
 
Dixie said:
ID, you got it right, it's nice to know someone understood the point. It's pretty astonishing at the number of responses to this thread in a day. It has to be some kind of record here, as Atheists burn up the keyboards to prove my point. But read closely, they aren't just responding to my argument, they are trying desperately to destroy my argument, to discredit me personally, to throw any monkey wrench they can find into the Truth Machine! They've attempted to divert the topic into a debate of religious philosophy, they've tried using their own flawed misconceptions of God, whatever it takes, because it is as if they must "win" this argument, although it's something they claim not to care about or believe in. Isn't that a bit odd? To go to the mat with those kind of extremes, over something that doesn't matter to you?
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You're a dumbass.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
It's absolutely wrong and I just demonstrated it conclusively. As I said, using logic to prove metaphysics makes about as much sense as using faith to explain a ham sandwhich.
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Faith can't be used to prove things. Logic is what is generally used, and I thought ID did a remarkable job illustrating how absurd it is to presume the metaphysical doesn't exist, simply because it isn't physical. You want to deny the existence of God, because you have no physical proof of his existence, but you also have no physical proof your mind exists. To carry that a step further, your thoughts and desires, you can express them, but do you have physical proof they exist?
 
Dixie said:
ID, you got it right, it's nice to know someone understood the point. It's pretty astonishing at the number of responses to this thread in a day. It has to be some kind of record here, as Atheists burn up the keyboards to prove my point. But read closely, they aren't just responding to my argument, they are trying desperately to destroy my argument, to discredit me personally, to throw any monkey wrench they can find into the Truth Machine! They've attempted to divert the topic into a debate of religious philosophy, they've tried using their own flawed misconceptions of God, whatever it takes, because it is as if they must "win" this argument, although it's something they claim not to care about or believe in. Isn't that a bit odd? To go to the mat with those kind of extremes, over something that doesn't matter to you?
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Dixie, the Atheist could say the same thing about your side, it is all in perspectives. You know you have the answers, I claim not to have the answers and am seeking them, and I have come to the conclusion that the answers are so outside my ability to reason as a human that I chose to leave it alone, therein lies the difference. Doesn't mean I don't think about, but it is more out of a desire to know. To know, humans thirst after knowledge, we hate not knowing. It is a fear factor for our species.

I see a lot of defense in your positioning. I see personal attacks coming from your arguments. It is not a sign of one who is at peace in their faith and their thinking. It to me shows that you might be insecure with your reasoning?

It is my belief that unless you have met god face to face and have come to the knowledge of god in that sense, then you don't know god, you have faith in your belief of what is god, but that is about all.

You resent the discourse, and yet, you are the one who brings the subject to the table, hmmmmmmm? Curious
 
Rana said:
Dixie, the Atheist could say the same thing about your side, it is all in perspectives. You know you have the answers, I claim not to have the answers and am seeking them, and I have come to the conclusion that the answers are so outside my ability to reason as a human that I chose to leave it alone, therein lies the difference. Doesn't mean I don't think about, but it is more out of a desire to know. To know, humans thirst after knowledge, we hate not knowing. It is a fear factor for our species.

I see a lot of defense in your positioning. I see personal attacks coming from your arguments. It is not a sign of one who is at peace in their faith and their thinking. It to me shows that you might be insecure with your reasoning?

It is my belief that unless you have met god face to face and have come to the knowledge of god in that sense, then you don't know god, you have faith in your belief of what is god, but that is about all.

You resent the discourse, and yet, you are the one who brings the subject to the table, hmmmmmmm? Curious
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Let's clear up some errors you've made here. I don't "resent" the discourse at all. I am tickled to death at the level of discourse from people who presumably do not care about the subject. The only "defensiveness" you've seen from me on this thread, is my defending of the thread topic integrity, and not allowing it to devolve into a religious philosophy debate. Even when someone attacked Jesus, I encouraged them to get it all out of their system, I wasn't defensive at all. They attack Christianity, and I respond the same way, get it out of your system, I might even empathize with you on Christians being the source of many problems through the years! I do this in hopes that when they work through their anger issues with religion, perhaps they will think more clearly, and understand their profound connection to spirituality, which all humans are born with.
 
Dixie said:
ID, you got it right, it's nice to know someone understood the point. It's pretty astonishing at the number of responses to this thread in a day. It has to be some kind of record here, as Atheists burn up the keyboards to prove my point. But read closely, they aren't just responding to my argument, they are trying desperately to destroy my argument, to discredit me personally, to throw any monkey wrench they can find into the Truth Machine! They've attempted to divert the topic into a debate of religious philosophy, they've tried using their own flawed misconceptions of God, whatever it takes, because it is as if they must "win" this argument, although it's something they claim not to care about or believe in. Isn't that a bit odd? To go to the mat with those kind of extremes, over something that doesn't matter to you?
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Who said I was an atheist? I just don't agree with you and ID's argument (or the one she cut and pasted) just simply doesn't hold water. It's built upon a false premis and is, to quote Spock, illogical.
 
Dixie said:
Faith can't be used to prove things. Logic is what is generally used, and I thought ID did a remarkable job illustrating how absurd it is to presume the metaphysical doesn't exist, simply because it isn't physical. You want to deny the existence of God, because you have no physical proof of his existence, but you also have no physical proof your mind exists. To carry that a step further, your thoughts and desires, you can express them, but do you have physical proof they exist?
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If you're saying that ID demonstrated remarkably well how illogical it is to use logic to prove metaphysics, then we are in complete agreement. Who said anything about denying the existence of God? Not I. I just correctly pointed out that the argument ID posted didn't hold water because it is based on a false premise and then preceded to demonstrate that fact. Try to stay on topic here Dixie.
 
It is my belief that unless you have met god face to face and have come to the knowledge of god in that sense, then you don't know god, you have faith in your belief of what is god, but that is about all.
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This is interesting to me, because it reveals one of the main problems I believe Atheists and even some religious people have, in understanding or comprehending God. As humans, we tend to want to place humanistic attributes on God... we call God "he" as if God has genitalia and a gender. We imagine God having human feeling and emotion, desires and needs, like those of a human. We do this because we are unable to comprehend God in any other way. Our inability to comprehend is both a blessing and a curse, it yields Atheistic beliefs as well as fanatical religious beliefs.

I often tell people I don't believe in God, I know and understand God. There is a difference between believing something and knowing it to be so. I can't convey my understanding to others, especially not people who are living in denial or have rejected the understanding completely. All I know is what I know, God is a presence and a force in my life, and is unmistakably real. I don't need to apply human characteristics to God, because God is not human. God doesn't "care" whether I worship him, because that would require God to have feelings and emotions, needs and desires, vanity and pride... I believe those are all human characteristics and not found in God. This is one of the reasons I am not of any particular religious belief, they all tend to apply human characteristics to God, which I don't think God has, or needs.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Who said I was an atheist? I just don't agree with you and ID's argument (or the one she cut and pasted) just simply doesn't hold water. It's built upon a false premis and is, to quote Spock, illogical.
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Yeah, while it might very well be a "false premise" that you possess a "mind," I still think her point was valid and very logical. You have no physical proof of the existence of your mind, and going by your postings, it's entirely possible it doesn't exist.
 
People give god human qualities because we thought of god. God was created in the image of man. Now, that being said, your concept of god seems to be outside the mainstream, you see god as an entity but I don't think you see him as a man in a robe with a grey beard. But I also think you see god as omniscient and omnipresent. IF that is the case, then god gave us free will and a mind to explore our world. Not believing in god, or as you put it, denying him is part and parcel of that. Why would god punish us for exercising our abilities and, again if you are right, punish us for that. It makes god petty. God, if it exists would just point out the err of our belief system in the afterlife.
 
AssHatZombie said:
You're trying to act all "better than" just because you stay quiet about it. Like you get a cookie now or some shit.
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I really don't have any huge bones to pick with the moderates, but I do hope that my debates with the fundamentalists rub off on them, and if one of them chooses to engage me in debate, that's fine.
 
Rana said:
They are back pedaling on evolution too, the new Pope just can't hang with it, like the last one did!
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I think the Catholics don't want to become embarrassed on the evolution debate like they were on heliocentrism, which is why they've seemingly embrace it. Benedict, as conservative as he is, would embarrass the Catholic church if he tried to backpedal on this. Then again, it wouldn't be the biggest embarrassment of his papacy.
 
AssHatZombie said:
But when will judaism stop being a theocratic tribalistic race cult?
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Only about 25% of Jews in America even believe in a personal God. Some don't even believe in God. The zionists who believe that they have a right to kick all of the arabs off of a strip of land because God promised it to them are disturbing though. If palestine were a place where Arab Jews and Muslims lived together the world would be a much better place now. Instead, the Zionists had to come in and take advantage of the Holocaust.
 
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