If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

domer76 said:
YHWH was a minor Canaanite storm god. At some point, he morphed into the major god and the Hebrews just claimed him as the only one. Even Genesis refers to the polytheistic gods and the First Commandment about “No gods before me”, acknowledging the presence of other gods.

You still have avoided looking that up, I see.
Perhaps. Except most Christians don’t know the origin of YHWH.
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YHWH was,is,always will be the only true God! Satan learned that simple lesson at his fall.
 
ZenMode said:
Correct and those claiming gods exist, based on nothing but iron age stories, haven't come close to meeting the burden of proof.
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No, they haven't. We agree on that.

ZenMode said:
Me saying "gods don't exist" is just another way of saying "Those who believe in gods haven't proven they exist".
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No it isn't. It is you saying, 'GODS DON'T EXIST."

And it incurs a burden of proof that you have not met.


ZenMode said:
The burden on me isn't to prove gods don't exist.
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You have asserted that gods don't exist. The burden of proof for that assertion DOES fall on you.
ZenMode said:
If 'negative proofs' were how we operate, then it would be on you, or anyone else, to prove there isn't a island of magical rainbow unicorns in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean and we'd all just have to believe that such an island exists, since none of us is able to prove every square miles of the Atlantic Ocean isn't inhabited by magical rainbow unicorns.
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If I made such an assertion, it would indeed fall on me.

YOU MADE AN ASSERTION THAT "GODS DON'T EXIST."

The burden for the proof of that assertion does fall on you...and so far, you have not met that burden. I suspect that is because you can no more meet it than the religionists can meet the burden of proving their gods exist. But the religionists, mostly, are more honest than you. They, mostly, claim they "believe" their gods exist. You specifically claim gods do not exist.

So, where is your proof that "GODS DON'T EXIST?"
 
ZenMode said:
You're confusing "Explaining how things are" with "Things were designed that way".

Also, there's nothing "organized" about that.
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Explain why would matter, spacetime, and energy conform to precise, lawful mathematical rules, and what would cause them to do so.

Why wouldn't all of physical reality just be chaotic, unlawful, and unpredictable, which is exactly what you might expect if all of nature just popped into existence by pure random chance and irrational, inanimate physical causes?

Einstein famously thought that the intelligibility and predictability of the universe was truly mind-blowing and profoundly incomprehensible.

You're explanation for why there are mathematical rules of the universe is the equivalent of throwing your hands up in the air and blurting out: "well, that's just the way it is!". That is not an adequate explanation logically, intellectually, or philosophically.
 
Cypress said:
Explain why would matter, spacetime, and energy conform to precise, lawful mathematical rules, and what would cause them to do so.

Why wouldn't all of physical reality just be chaotic, unlawful, and unpredictable, which is exactly what you might expect if all of nature just popped into existence by pure random chance and irrational, inanimate physical causes?

Einstein famously thought that the intelligibility and predictability of the universe was truly mind-blowing and profoundly incomprehensible.

You're explanation for why there are mathematical rules of the universe is the equivalent of throwing your hands up in the air and blurting out: "well, that's just the way it is!". That is not an adequate explanation logically, intellectually, or philosophically.
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"well, that's just the way it is!".

That is just the way it is. Things are how they are and we try to explain it. That doesn't mean something designed it.

Why is H2O a life saving liquid but H2O2 toxic? I don't know, but it is.

Just more God of the gaps stuff.
 
ZenMode said:
"well, that's just the way it is!".

That is just the way it is.
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That's not an adequate explanation. It's a cop out. It's sweeping an uncomfortable question under the rug.

No reputable scientist would say 'that's just the way it is'. That is a dereliction of scientific responsibility.

Ninety percent of the decisions we make in life are based on incomplete information and missing data. A good logical inference to the best explanation is that rationality and lawful organization most likely comes from some higher rational agency.

I will consider that the physical universe is just a random chance occurrence caused by irrational and inanimate physical forces.... as soon as you can tell me when you have ever seen something come from nothing, the rational come from the irrational, and order spontaneously coming from chaos.
 
Ross Dolan said:
YOU MADE AN ASSERTION THAT "GODS DON'T EXIST."

The burden for the proof of that assertion does fall on you.
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The default position on the origin of life, the universe, and everything is not atheism.

The default position is agnosticism.

Both theism and atheism owe explanations and justifications for their belief systems.
 
Cypress said:
That's not an adequate explanation. It's a cop out. It's sweeping an uncomfortable question under the rug.

No reputable scientist would say 'that's just the way it is'. That is a dereliction of scientific responsibility.

Ninety percent of the decisions we make in life are based on incomplete information and missing data. A good logical inference to the best explanation is that rationality and lawful organization most likely comes from some higher rational agency.

I will consider that the physical universe is just a random chance occurrence caused by irrational and inanimate physical forces.... as soon as you can tell me when you have ever seen something come from nothing, the rational come from the irrational, and order spontaneously coming from chaos.
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The opinion that "it's not an adequate explanation" or "I can't explain" has been the basis for man creating gods for millenia.
 
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