If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[Freddy Figbottom]

Argumentum ad populum. Yes, for some people, only the truth can get so many people to believe something like that.

yet it's considered a fallacy without other arguments.

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

Yes it is.

holy wow.


so dumb.

 

[FastLane]

Bullshit.

The Bible is almost certainly of no more value in understanding the REALITY of existence than are the myths and legends of Egypt, Greece, and Rome.

Sorry that you feel that way Frankie. If the Bible had no value it wouldn't be the most popular book of all time and would not have spread across the entire world and lasted millennia. I think it is far more likely that you are wrong than it is that the Bible is wrong. Frankie you are running out of time. You really should devote some of the little time that you have left on this Earth to truly study the Bible in depth before you launch into the cosmos. I suggest you get a Strong concordance and do a systematic study of the Bible reading every verse starting with Grace and then progressing to other subjects. It would be best if you humble yourself first and ask for guidance with your study.

 

[Cypress]

It's not difficult to ridicule any made-up gods from any age.

That really doesn't explain why you wanted to limit theism to just the gods written about in ancient Scripture.

Explain why the type of theisms Spinoza, Jefferson, Einstein believed in is so foolish and so inferior to your beliefs.

 

[ZenMode]

Evasion. Answer the question put to you. How do you know they are made up?

RQAA

 

[ZenMode]

Same can, and should, be said about most atheist's atheism.

Absolutely not. The evidence for the god's of today's religions is incredibly poor quality and limited quantity. There's no more evidence for the Jesus/God of the Bible than there is for the St. Nick/Santa Clause in Christmas story books.

There's also the fact, as I've mentioned many times, that the further young go back in time, the more common it was for man to create "gods" to explain/control the world around them.

And, again, the largest majority of Christians, Muslims, Mormons, etc are atheistic as it relates to all gods except theirs.

 

[ZenMode]

If you walk on wet asphalt, you are walking on water.

Again, you're playing dumb.

Walking on a wet surface wouldn't be called out in the Bible because anyone, with the ability to walk, could do it.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Sorry that you feel that way Frankie. If the Bible had no value it wouldn't be the most popular book of all time and would not have spread across the entire world and lasted millennia.

I did not say the Bible had no value. I said, "The Bible is almost certainly of no more value in understanding the REALITY of existence than are the myths and legends of Egypt, Greece, and Rome.
The Bible does have value in helping some people to form a personal morality and ethic. Nothing wrong with that. Dickens book, A Tale of Two Cities, has value of that same sort...as does the work of Jacqueline Susann, for that matter.

I think it is far more likely that you are wrong than it is that the Bible is wrong.

Okay, you are free to think that.

Frankie you are running out of time. You really should devote some of the little time that you have left on this Earth to truly study the Bible in depth before you launch into the cosmos.

I have studied the Bible in fairly great depth already, FL. My plans as a young man were to have a vocation...to enter a seminary and become a priest. I did study the Bible because I chose to do so.

I suggest you get a Strong concordance and do a systematic study of the Bible reading every verse starting with Grace and then progressing to other subjects. It would be best if you humble yourself first and ask for guidance with your study.

Thank you for the suggestion. I will not take it, of course, but I thank you for offering it.

 

[Cypress]

Again, you're playing dumb.

Walking on a wet surface wouldn't be called out in the Bible because anyone, with the ability to walk, could do it.

IBD is a bad faith poster. Word games are his forte.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Absolutely not.

Absolutely so.

The evidence for the god's of today's religions is incredibly poor quality and limited quantity.

Okay, I agree. But what does that have to do with what I said about most atheist's atheism?

There's no more evidence for the Jesus/God of the Bible than there is for the St. Nick/Santa Clause in Christmas story books.

Well, that is not so, but it makes little sense to discuss it. In any case, what does that have to do with what I said about most atheist's atheism.

There's also the fact, as I've mentioned many times, that the further young go back in time, the more common it was for man to create "gods" to explain/control the world around them.

Yes...and it continues. What does that have to do with what I said about most atheist's atheism?

And, again, the largest majority of Christians, Muslims, Mormons, etc are atheistic as it relates to all gods except theirs.

That is so trite, you should stop using it. It sounds like the "bald is not a hair color" bullshit.

 

[ZenMode]

That really doesn't explain why you wanted to limit theism to just the gods written about in ancient Scripture.

Explain why the type of theisms Spinoza, Jefferson, Einstein believed in is so foolish and so inferior to your beliefs.

I'm not limiting anything. When discussions about God's, atheism and theism come up, they are almost entirely related to today's religions and, in the US, generally focused on the Christian God.

 

[Cypress]

Same can, and should, be said about most atheist's atheism.

Theism and atheism are both knowledge claims.

One asserts gods exist, the other asserts gods do not exist.

Atheism is not the default position when it comes to questions about the origins and design of life, the universe, and everything.


If one really wanted to pick a default position, it would be agnosticism.

 

[ZenMode]

They do indeed.

Some people claim there are no gods. That is an extraordinary claim...and requires extraordinary evidence...which just does not exist.

It really isn't an extraordinary claim given what we know about biology, physics and the world around us, the claims about gods, specifically the Christian God, are extraordinary and have very, very, very limited evidence to support them, especially today, unless you are already a believer, in which case you can find evidence anywhere and everywhere.

 

[Cypress]

I'm not limiting anything. When discussions about God's, atheism and theism come up, they are almost entirely related to today's religions and, in the US, generally focused on the Christian God.

I've never seen a formal definition of theism that limits it only to the gods which annoy ZenMode the most.

You still haven't explained what is so foolish and idiotic about the clock-maker Deism of Thomas Jefferson or the pantheism of Spinoza and Einstein.

 

[ZenMode]

Absolutely so.

Okay, I agree. But what does that have to do with what I said about most atheist's atheism?

Well, that is not so, but it makes little sense to discuss it. In any case, what does that have to do with what I said about most atheist's atheism.

Yes...and it continues. What does that have to do with what I said about most atheist's atheism?

That is so trite, you should stop using it. It sounds like the "bald is not a hair color" bullshit.

What is the evidence for the Christian god/Jesus? There are stories written about them both, that make claims that go against much of what we know to be possible as it relates biology, physics, etc. bushes don't burn without being consumed. Bushes don't talk and people don't talk through bushes - it's simply not possible. The Bible claims God stopped the sun in the sky. In order for that to happen, he would have to stop the rotation of the Earth. If that were to happen, the people of Earth, specifically the ones that lived in the part of the world where Jesus lived, would suddenly be thrown to the east at a speed of approximately 800 miles per hour.

Humans can't walk on top of water.

There's no reason to believe these aren't all fairy tales made up by superstitious men and without those miracles, Jesus/God was just some regular guy on earth.

 

[Ross Dolan]

It really isn't an extraordinary claim given what we know about biology, physics and the world around us, the claims about gods, specifically the Christian God, are extraordinary and have very, very, very limited evidence to support them, especially today, unless you are already a believer, in which case you can find evidence anywhere and everywhere.

That is just about the entire of your bit...which accounts for the fact that you prefer to debate (badger) Christians rather thn me.

Showing that the Christians have a very long way to go to sustain their assertions of a GOD...does NOTHING WHATSOEVER to sustain the assertion of most atheists that either 1) There are no gods...or 2) That it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

You are really entrenching in intellectual coward mode right now, Zen. Get out of it.

The atheistic position is of no more value in understanding the REALITY of existence than the theistic one. Your constant badgering of theists in this forum for their "beliefs" applies to atheistic "beliefs" just as severely.

 

[ZenMode]

The atheistic position is of no more value in understanding the REALITY of existence than the theistic one.

I don't know what you mean by value...

 

[gfm7175]

The evidence for the god's of today's religions is incredibly poor quality

That's your opinion.

and limited quantity.

That's you continuing to ignore the existence of most evidence. It still exists, whether or not you choose to ignore it.

There's no more evidence for the Jesus/God of the Bible than there is for the St. Nick/Santa Clause in Christmas story books.

There is evidence for both.

There's also the fact, as I've mentioned many times, that the further young go back in time, the more common it was for man to create "gods" to explain/control the world around them.

There's also the fact that many tens of millions of Christians have been martyred for their faith.

And, again, the largest majority of Christians, Muslims, Mormons, etc are atheistic as it relates to all gods except theirs.

No, I reject the existence of all other gods except for mine. Obviously, I believe that mine is the "correct one". Why wouldn't I?

BTW, why are you separating Mormons from Christians? Mormons ARE Christians...

 

[gfm7175]

Again, you're playing dumb.

No, he's not (he's correct). You aren't playing dumb either (because you ARE dumb).

Walking on a wet surface

aka 'walking on water'

wouldn't be called out in the Bible because anyone, with the ability to walk, could do it.

Exactly. People walk on water all the time.

However, the specific instance of 'walking on water' that is mentioned in The Bible is quite different from other instances of it.

 

[gfm7175]

IBD is a bad faith poster. Word games are his forte.

Hmmm... And here I thought that IBD was a "no faith" poster..... ??